Trying to make sense of Wollensak Shuter/Century Lens on 5x7 Conley Folder

I'd really like to shoot this camera(after I cut a new ground glass for it) but I'm trying to make sense of what's going on here.

This came pretty much as-is out of a friends collection. I don't have a photo of the camera handy, but it's a Conley(not sure of the exact model) folder with a triple-extension bed. It really is a lovely camera in polished mahogoney and brass, and what I think I found a catalog describing as seal? leather on the outside.

In any case, I've been reading as many references as I can find on Wollensak shutters, and I can't seem to find this particular one. The front plate is marked "Rauber & Wollensak Opt. Co. Rochester. NY" with a patent date of Feb. 6th 1900. The only controls on it are the single cocking/firing lever and the shutter speed dial(marked 1-100, plus T and B). The oldest catalog I've run across is 1904, and there are similar shutters to this one, but none exactly the same(the self cocking models seem to have a separate cocking/firing lever from the rim of the shutter body, while this just has the one). The seems to only have 2 blades, and it does fire but seems to only fire at one speed(aside from T and B, both of which do work). I'm GUESSING there should be a lever and piston attached to the cylinder on the right that would adjust the slow speeds, but I'm also at a loss aas to how it would attach. Newer similar shutters I've seen(like this one, which I bought-figured it was cheap enough to be worth a shot https://www.ebay.com/itm/286221220415 ) seem to have a lever screw in place on the right going to the piston, and I see nowhere for it to attach.

I THINK it's probably hopeless to make this fully functional unless I find another one for parts that can yield the missing pieces, but is anyone familiar at all with this shutter?

In addition, the lens on this labeled "Century Triple Convertible 5x7 17 IN." I've played with it a bit by sticking a piece of paper where the ground glass goes, and was able to get it in focus, but by my measurements this camera only has about 20" of bellows draw. 17" seems REALLY long for 5x7. I'm curious about this being a "convertible" though. Are there additional elements I'd need to change the focal length, or can it be changed by using just the front or rear group? I have spent some time digging through Century catalogs also, and the Century lenses I seem to find referenced are the-presumably later-Anistagmat and other series lenses. This one caries no other markings other than the ones I've just stated. Does anyone have any information or reference on this particular lens?

I'd love to actually use this lens. The glass is clean and clear, and I can't imagine it wouldn't render a perfectly acceptable image within the constraints of a lens this age(and minding my contrast). I have some 5x7 X-ray film to play with, although I'm also not sure if I can use anything but plate holders in this camera. I have boxes of film holders from this same friend, including some plate holders and some standard 5x7 cut film holders, so PROBABLY have something that will work.

At this point, though, I'd just appreciate any information that anyone may be able to offer.

Have you visited the www.alphaxbetax.com website?
It's a wealth of Wollensak information.

Do you have both halves of the triple-convertible lens?
With most convertible lens, the shortest focal length is with the 2 elements combined.
Longer focal lengths are with a single front or rear element behind the aperture.
Also...no way that's an f4 lens...that has to be the US System...
US 16 = f/16, you can calculate f-numbers going by marked aperture stops from there.

AnselMortensen said:

Have you visited the www.alphaxbetax.com website?
It's a wealth of Wollensak information.

Click to expand...

Thanks! I came across that site in my searching, but did not seem to find anything that went QUITE far back enough to cover this shutter.

With that said, I hadn't realized that they provide service-maybe it's worth just sending this to them and seeing if they can sort it out!

More info added above. ^^^

It is missing parts. Both cylinders should have pistons and the right one needs a lever.

AnselMortensen said:

Have you visited the www.alphaxbetax.com website?
It's a wealth of Wollensak information.

Do you have both halves of the triple-convertible lens?
With most convertible lens, the shortest focal length is with the 2 elements combined.
Longer focal lengths are with a single front or rear element behind the aperture.
Also...no way that's an f4 lens...that has to be the US System...
US 16 = f/16, you can calculate f-numbers going by marked aperture stops from there.

Click to expand...

Thanks!

And yes I have both halves of the lens.

I just did some quick playing with it with both elements in place. Focusing on a telephone pole down the street(probably not infinity, but close enough to get an idea) I was measuring the shutter at ~210mm from the focal plane, which seems a lot more normal/reasonable for a 5x7 lens. Removing the element and only leaving the rear, I had to rack the bellows WAY out-about 16" or so.

Also, I measure the rear of the front group at about 25mm. Assuming the "real" focal length is 200mm and not my measured ~200mm, that gives f/8, which as I understand it is consistent with the aperture scale markings(where f-number is double the US number). Does all of that look/sound about right for this lens?

I think you're in the ballpark.
Others with more knowledge about vintage shutters & convertible lenses might chime in with more info.

Ben Hutcherson said:

I THINK it's probably hopeless to make this fully functional unless I find another one for parts that can yield the missing pieces, but is anyone familiar at all with this shutter?

In addition, the lens on this labeled "Century Triple Convertible 5x7 17 IN." I've played with it a bit by sticking a piece of paper where the ground glass goes, and was able to get it in focus, but by my measurements this camera only has about 20" of bellows draw. 17" seems REALLY long for 5x7. I'm curious about this being a "convertible" though.

Click to expand...

Gratulations to your camera so far.
17" (ca. 43cm) make sense for half of a convertible lens for the 5x7" format.
One of my lenses is a convertible 6.3/20.5cm with two 35cm (ca 14") optics.
My guess is a 10" (25.4cm) focal lengh if you two 17" optics.

Best
Jens (looking for parts to get a 13x18cm camera working, too...)

Okay, I'll make a more detailed post later, but I've managed to dig up a bit more information this afternoon.

First of, I'd been told a while back when I asked about this camera on another forum that it was a Conley. The ivory nameplate on the front standard is faint, but I'm 99% sure the camera is a Century, not a Conley. Specifically, I think it's a Century Grand. The Century catalogs(there are a bunch at this link http://piercevaubel.com/cam/catalogscentury.htm ) seem to advertise several features present on this camera, such as a triple extension, geared tilt bed that are exactly like the one on this camera


The 1901-1903 catalogs specifically mention the Grand shipping with the triple convertible as standard or as an option. I believe this one is 1901(or possibly earlier) as it has the old style front standard lock, not the new style illustrated in the 1902 catalog. I hadn't thought to look at the rear cell, but it's labeled 12 1/2". So, I'm guessing that it's a "triple" lens at 12 1/2" using only the rear cell, 17" using only the front, or whatever I've measured(guessing either 8 1/2 or 8 3/4") using both elements. That seems like a nice set of normal to really long lenses for 5x7 to me, so if I can get this all functioning well this seems like quite a capable 5x7 set-up.

The shutter seems to be the Century "Double Valve" shutter, which in 1901 seemed to be their premium offering and by ~1905 had slipped down the list.

Like I said, I have a few more things I've turned up that I'll type up later. I'm sorry I hadn't paid much attention to this camera sooner-I'm actually really excited to use it now! With some slow plates, and with T working fine, I can probably use it alright even with the shutter not fully functional...

One little tip I learned the hard way about convertible lenses of this period; If you are going to use only one lens cell, be sure to refocus your image AFTER stopping down to the desired f stop. The image can shift out of focus due to the location of the aperture being before the lens.

This can be a bit tricky, as if you are shooting at a small aperture, the image will be very dim...

Kino said:

One little tip I learned the hard way about convertible lenses of this period; If you are going to use only one lens cell, be sure to refocus your image AFTER stopping down to the desired f stop. The image can shift out of focus due to the location of the aperture being before the lens.

This can be a bit tricky, as if you are shooting at a small aperture, the image will be very dim...

Click to expand...

+1. I learned the same lesson, the same way. Hard! The bellows on your camera looks to be in great shape. You can use this camera as long as there are no light leaks. As to the shutter working? Missing pistons mean buying a parts Len/shutter which can be a little hard to find, but not impossible. If you want to see if the results are worth the cost and effort just use a "hat" shutter. You'll be using fairly slow speed film and with a small, say f22 aperture you can just cover the lens, pull the dark slide, uncover the lens for the required time and then cover the lens. Been done since the beginning of time in photography.