Troubleshooting My Flash?

Radny · Apr 15, 2017

Hey guys,

When I bought my Minolta XG-9 at a thrift store ages ago, it was also with a Vivitar 550FD flash. Now for the longest time I couldn't get the flash to work (the shutter would just stay open whenever I shot) until I started fidgeting with it. Ends up the hotshoe connectors don't line up exactly and by pulling out the flash half-way, it'll start functioning like a normal flash.

I finally had some time to take some shots with the flash attached and they came out like this. Only the very right side of the pictures came out illuminated. Does anyone have any idea what the cause of this is?

Leigh B · Apr 16, 2017

It looks like you're using a bulb flash mode when you should be using a strobe mode.

- Leigh

markbarendt · Apr 16, 2017

Shutter sync speed.

Your shutter speed needs to be slower. Probably 1/60th.

wiltw · Apr 16, 2017

X-sync speed (or slower) is when the shutter curtains are fully open, so that the full width of the film is exposed to the light from the len when the flash emits its very brief burst of light.

Faster than x-sync speed the curtains open only to a narrow slit (which travels across the film) so when the flash goes off, only a narrow strip of film is exposed to the light coming thru the lens, and the rest of the film is underexposed to the open shutter slit and ambient light, during the rest of the exposure after the flash has quenched.

Radny · Apr 16, 2017

Leigh B said:
It looks like you're using a bulb flash mode when you should be using a strobe mode.

- Leigh

I'm not familiar with that term "strobe mode." Can you explain what that is?

markbarendt said:
Shutter sync speed.

Your shutter speed needs to be slower. Probably 1/60th.

When the flash is attached the camera automatically sets to 1/60th. I don't think I can use a manual setting.

markbarendt · Apr 16, 2017

Radny said:
I'm not familiar with that term "strobe mode." Can you explain what that is?

When the flash is attached the camera automatically sets to 1/60th. I don't think I can use a manual setting.

Strobe = flash

The shutter is getting in the way, one way or another. Shutter speed or shutter problem.

wiltw · Apr 16, 2017

Radny said:
When the flash is attached the camera automatically sets to 1/60th. I don't think I can use a manual setting.

In that case something else is wrong, and it is definitely not user error -- when the camera sets itself to 1/60 (the correct X-synch speed for your camera) and you get the results you get.

It is very simple to put a flash on an empty camera, open the film back and watch the shutter curtains open when you press the shutter button...

The first curtain should move across the width of the frame, to open
the entire frame should be open, and you should be able to see the back of the lens fully for a brief moment and the flash should fire while the two curtains are fully open.
then the second curtain should move across the width of the frame, to close the opening

If you cannot see #2, your shutter is malfunctioning at 1/60.

Leigh B · Apr 16, 2017

Without the flash mounted, set the camera to a slow speed like 1/2 second or 1 second.
Confirm that the shutter remains fully open for that interval.

It's quite possible your slow speeds are not working properly.

- Leigh

shutterfinger · Apr 16, 2017

If you need a instruction manual you can download one here: http://www.cameramanuals.org/minolta_pdf/minolta_xg-9.pdf
Are you waiting until the flash ready light is ON?
Are the camera batteries good? (all other functions and shutter speeds work properly.)

wiltw said:
the entire frame should be open, and you should be able to see the back of the lens fully for a brief moment and the flash should fire while the two curtains are fully open.

Are you sure the full image frame should be open, I thought at 1.60 second a slit of 1/3 to 1/4 of the frame should be being moved across the image frame and the flash duration long enough to expose the full frame.
I don't have a horizontal travel focal plane shuttered camera without film in it to try.

wiltw · Apr 16, 2017

shutterfinger said:
Are you sure the full image frame should be open, I thought at 1.60 second a slit of 1/3 to 1/4 of the frame should be being moved across the image frame and the flash duration long enough to expose the full frame.
I don't have a horizontal travel focal plane shuttered camera without film in it to try.

ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE...it is the very definition of X-sync shutter speed for electronic flash on any format camera with a focal plane shutter, whether horizontal or vertical curtain movement...shutter fully open!

The Olympus OM-4T was the first SLR to have a long-duration electronic flash (F-280) which could work with a moving slit. Every dSLR today uses HSS long-duration flash to work with a slit (at faster than X-sync)

cooltouch · Apr 16, 2017

Since flash sync on the XG-9 is 1/60, then, by definition, the shutter is fully open at 1/60 (and slower). So, no -- no slit at 1/60. And no, the flash does not stay on long enough to handle a slit. Your typical strobe has a very fast trigger time -- in the order of 1/10,000 second. Some cameras can handle faster syncs with special flashes, but the XG-9 isn't one of them.

Once you've finished the film in your XG-9, try doing the test like wiltw recommended. This will let you know if your camera is not setting your shutter to 1/60 even though it says it is. Next time you shoot with a flash, don't trust what your camera says it's doing -- go ahead and manually set your shutter speed to 1/60 and see if that doesn't cure your problem. If it does, then you know your auto-setting of flash sync is not functioning properly.

wiltw · Apr 16, 2017

Your XG-9 is either...

not causing selection of 1/60 when the flash unit is sensed as mounted and turned on and ready to shoot, or
1/60 is being selected but the shutter is not functioning properly to fully open the shutter because the curtain movement is sluggish, or
the closing of the contacts for flash firing is occurring at the wrong timing, not when the first curtain is FULLY OPEN, but too soon.

shutterfinger · Apr 16, 2017

wiltw said:
ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE...it is the very definition of X-sync shutter speed for electronic flash on any format camera with a focal plane shutter, whether horizontal or vertical curtain movement...shutter fully open!

The Olympus OM-4T was the first SLR to have a long-duration electronic flash (F-280) which could work with a moving slit. Every dSLR today uses HSS long-duration flash to work with a slit (at faster than X-sync)

My F4s syncs at 250 and has a vertical travel shutter, I doubt its full frame open for 1/250 so it must use long duration flash.

Randy,
in the examples you posted the flash fired just before the curtain closed. There are two curtains, on shutter release the first curtain is released opening the image plane to light from the lens then the second curtain is released blocking light from the lens, the shutter speed selected determines the distance between the curtains. The image in camera is upside down and reversed left to right.
There are several camera techs active on this thread and we may disagree on some points. Hopefully we don't confuse you.

wiltw · Apr 16, 2017

shutterfinger said:
My F4s syncs at 250 and has a vertical travel shutter, I doubt its full frame open for 1/250 so it must use long duration flash.

Modern shutters sync at 1/250 on the professional grade dSLRs of today, and on the consumer grade APS-C size smaller frame vertical travel shutters. F4 was a pro grade film SLR and one of the Nikon claims for the camera was "faster synchronization (sync)" because the shutter curtain movement itself was faster...."super-high shutter speed of 1/8,000 sec. achieved with the development of shutter blades made from an ultra-lightweight compound material (carbon fiber compound) which is lighter and more durable than titanium." The flash synch was described by Nikon as, "X setting only, TTL-BL Sync available, synchronized at 1/250 sec. or less, Rear-Curtain Sync possible"

The Nikon flashes supporting the long-duration flash mode,
Auto FP high-speed sync mode, which allows you to use shutter speeds faster than 1/250s...
are available only with certain external Speedlights, not with the built-in pop-up Speedlight. The five Nikon Speedlights that can be used with your Nikon in Auto FP high-speed sync modes are as follows:

SB-900
SB-800
SB-700
SB-600
SB-R200

and none of these were available at the time of the F4 release. There is no mention of Auto FP mode flash in the F4 user manual, either.

AgX · Apr 16, 2017

Leigh B said:
It looks like you're using a bulb flash mode when you should be using a strobe mode.

In incandescant (bulb) flash there should be no exposure at all when using an electronic flash.
The thus prematurerely triggered flash should have died before the shutter opens.

(EDIT: The XG-9 does not even have a bulb-flash synchro setting.)

AgX · Apr 16, 2017

The XG-9 has an accessory contact in its hot shoe that automatically sets the synchro speed at the shutter (and indicates ther charged state) when the appropriate flash is attached.
Obviously here is something wrong. But the shutter should work right nonetheless when the synchro speed is set manually.

wiltw · Apr 16, 2017

AgX said:
The XG-9 has an accessory contact in its hot shoe that automatically sets the synchro speed at the shutter (and indicates ther charged state) when the appropriate flash is attached.
Obviously here is something wrong. But the shutter should work right nonetheless when the synchro speed is set manually.

...and perhaps the 550FD flash does not have a foot compatible with the XG-9 to cause it to detect the flash is On and Ready to fire, so it defaults to the shutter speed set on camera, and does not shift to 1/60...resulting in the exposure problems shown!

shutterfinger · Apr 16, 2017

Radny said:
Now for the longest time I couldn't get the flash to work (the shutter would just stay open whenever I shot) until I started fidgeting with it. Ends up the hotshoe connectors don't line up exactly and by pulling out the flash half-way, it'll start functioning like a normal flash.

I suspecting the center contact of the flash is corroded inside the flash shoe and needs to be cleaned with contact cleaner or Alcohol. The camera hot shoe contact could need cleaning also. I'm not ruling out a camera problem either.

DWThomas · Apr 16, 2017

wiltw said:
...and perhaps the 550FD flash does not have a foot compatible with the XG-9 to cause it to detect the flash is On and Ready to fire, so it defaults to the shutter speed set on camera, and does not shift to 1/60...resulting in the exposure problems shown!

Have to say, the OP mentions "by pulling out the flash half-way, it'll start functioning like a normal flash." One might think that alone could result in not setting the shutter to sync speed, depending on how the camera senses a flash is attached. The result sure looks like the shutter is running above sync speed.

Radny · Apr 16, 2017

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone. I'll try testing everything out when I'm done with this roll.

Since it may be part of the problem, here's the camera's hotshoe and the connectors for the 550FD

If the camera and the flash just don't play nice, what would be a good all around flash to use for this camera? When I bought them they were bundled together, so I just figured the previous owner used the 550FD and I just wasn't doing something right.

Chan Tran · Apr 16, 2017

A Minolta Auto 320X would be a good match but still I suspect there is something wrong with your camera.

cooltouch · Apr 16, 2017

Is there anything imprinted on that flash that says it's for Minolta? Cuz those contacts don't even look like a close match. Looks like Vivitar has combined a few contact configurations so that more than one system can be used on it. I dunno if I like that idea. I've tried using a flash with a dedicated Nikon module on a Canon EOS and the combination acted weird. I ended up taping up the outlier contacts such that only the center one was active, and then things were okay, albeit in manual mode.

Speaking of manual mode, since you asked about another flash, I can highly recommend the Vivitar 283 or 285. These flashes have a thyristor circuit that monitors and determines correct exposure. They even have a few auto settings, just to make life easier. Plenty of output for most situations. But these really are manual flashes in that they are not dedicated to any specific camera model. They have the single contact in the flash shoe. So you have to remember to set your camera to flash sync. The 283 and 285 were the pros' mainstays for many years before AF took over.

AgX · Apr 16, 2017

Unless the flash manual says the contrary, I would only use a dedicated flash on the respective camera.

Radny · Apr 16, 2017

Chan Tran said:
A Minolta Auto 320X would be a good match but still I suspect there is something wrong with your camera.

cooltouch said:
Is there anything imprinted on that flash that says it's for Minolta? Cuz those contacts don't even look like a close match. Looks like Vivitar has combined a few contact configurations so that more than one system can be used on it. I dunno if I like that idea. I've tried using a flash with a dedicated Nikon module on a Canon EOS and the combination acted weird. I ended up taping up the outlier contacts such that only the center one was active, and then things were okay, albeit in manual mode.

Speaking of manual mode, since you asked about another flash, I can highly recommend the Vivitar 283 or 285. These flashes have a thyristor circuit that monitors and determines correct exposure. They even have a few auto settings, just to make life easier. Plenty of output for most situations. The 283 and 285 were the pros' mainstays for many years before AF took over.

AgX said:
Unless the flash manual says the contrary, I would only use a dedicated flash on the respective camera.

Yeah, I think the root of the problem may just be that the 550FD doesn't work with the XG-9. Them being sold together may have just been a mistake. I think I'll find myself a minolta auto 320x just because one look at those hotshoe connectors and they line up perfectly. Also the manual for both the XG-9 and the 320x have very similar layout, so I assume they were produced around the same time.

Thanks for the recommendation, Chan Tran and cooltouch!

AgX · Apr 16, 2017

"Dedicated" typically means having more contacts than the center contact and the lateral contact at the slit.

Some flashes are "multi-dedicated". One can preset their electronics by switch to different camera models.

But from some point in time the dedication got so complex that instead a whole dedicated hot-foot had to be exchanged. As for instance in the german SCA-system.

Troubleshooting My Flash?

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