Trouble with developing 4x5

JADoss23 · May 27, 2017

I recently got a Speed Graphic and bought some Arista 100 edu sheet film to learn on. I did a lot of research to try and make sure I could learn all of the correct steps to make sure that I would be able to take a picture. After the few test pictures I've taken I developed first using the taco method in a Patterson tank and my two sheets turned out entirely clear. I figured this was just due to not really knowing what I was doing when using the taco method so last night I developed in trays just one sheet to test and using D-76 to develop with. Again after I was finished my sheet was clear. I have been developing black and white 35mm and 120 for awhile so stumped as to what I'm doing wrong. Is it in the development process or during the picture taking? Is the film possibly bad? Thanks!

canuhead · May 27, 2017

as in 'no film markings in the rebate' clear ? this is key information

also, how did you focus the camera ? gg or rangefinder ? if not gg, then the curtain may have been closed

pdeeh · May 27, 2017

canuhead said:
as in 'no film markings in the rebate' clear ? this is key information

LF film: probably hasn't got any (I've used Foma 4x5 - 200 not 100 - in fact I was looking at some today to make cyanotypes from - it has no edge markings, just notches, like all the other sheet film I've seen)

pdeeh · May 27, 2017

JADoss23 said:
after I was finished my sheet was clear. I have been developing black and white 35mm and 120 for awhile so stumped as to what I'm doing wrong. Is it in the development process or during the picture taking? Is the film possibly bad? Thanks!

The chances of "bad film" are extremely remote. This kind of failure is almost always either a camera problem or user error.

You can verify the camera by shooting it with no film inserted and looking to see if the shutter fires.

On the user error side:
Did you remember to remove the darkslide before releasing the shutter?
Did you possibly load the film backwards into the holder? (|Tho' this would probably have produced at least a very very weak image)
Did you possible pour the fixer first into the tank rather than developer first?

You wouldn't be the first or last to make any of the latter mistakes, if that's the problem, so if it is user error, no need to feel embarrassed.

vdonovan · May 27, 2017

Has your Speed Graphic got a focal plane shutter? Make sure it is open.

canuhead · May 27, 2017

pdeeh said:
LF film: probably hasn't got any (I've used Foma 4x5 - 200 not 100 - in fact I was looking at some today to make cyanotypes from - it has no edge markings, just notches, like all the other sheet film I've seen)

the 320 TXP I'm exposing has marking on same edge as notch codes.

Vaughn · May 27, 2017

1)Take a photo with your camera but without the film holder in it -- look at the GG while tripping the shutter to see if any light come thru.

2)Expose a sheet of film to daylight, then develop it -- if it is clear, then the error is in the processing.

pdeeh · May 27, 2017

canuhead said:
the 320 TXP I'm exposing has marking on same edge as notch codes.

Fair enough. But he isn't using txp320.

canuhead · May 27, 2017

true. I've never used Arista. until we hear more from OP, it's either fix first (although he's processed film before...) or the curtain was down. or slide was never pulled and film wasn't exposed

removed account4 · May 27, 2017

my poor guess, without seeing your camera,
is that you used the RF to focus so you didn't realize
your FP shutter was on T instead of O ... or you did not load the film emulsion side up

OP, if you take the camera, right now, put the lens-shutter on T can you see through
the lens from the ground glass ? if so, its probably the film in the holders.

JADoss23 · May 27, 2017

I was using the focal plane shutter and I did test it through the ground glass without the film holder and could see the light come through and the different slits in the curtain. The film doesn't have any markings just the notches. I definitely didn't do the fixer first. Developed in trays last night so knew the order I was going in. I'm sure it's a small error I'm making just have no clue since my first time using the camera and large format.

canuhead · May 27, 2017

do you recall pulling the dark slide out ?

pdeeh · May 27, 2017

JADoss23 said:
I definitely didn't do the fixer first. Developed in trays last night so knew the order I was going in. .

I know you are "sure" that you didn't fix it first, but I've been developing film in trays for a few years now and managed to do this myself this year for the first time.

If the shutter is OK, then there are really only two possible answers: either you fixed first, or your developer didn't develop.

There's lots of good advice already in the thread for how to troubleshoot. Do follow some of it rather than insist all the suggestions for fault points don't apply to you!

Good luck

pdeeh · May 27, 2017

canuhead said:
do you recall pulling the dark slide out ?

Already been asked, but op hasn't answered yet on that

canuhead · May 27, 2017

not pulling the slide has happened to me once in a blue moon. every one has done that and I consider a necessary rite of passage...The Wasting or Sacrifice of a Sheet to our Large Format Overlords

pdeeh · May 27, 2017

I've managed to pull the slide OK, but from the wrong side of the holder.
I remember bill burk confessing to remembering to pull the darkslide OK, but twice (for one side) of a number of holders

JADoss23 · May 27, 2017

pdeeh said:
I know you are "sure" that you didn't fix it first, but I've been developing film in trays for a few years now and managed to do this myself this year for the first time.

If the shutter is OK, then there are really only two possible answers: either you fixed first, or your developer didn't develop.

There's lots of good advice already in the thread for how to troubleshoot. Do follow some of it rather than insist all the suggestions for fault points don't apply to you!

Good luck

Guess it could be a shutter issues then. I did make sure I removed the dark slide last night when I was taking the picture. I do know I did not fix first. Hundred percent sure about that. I'm using a fresh batch of D-76 and the previous time I tried to develop I was using a different which I both have used on 35mm and 120 film and it Developed pictures so I don't believe it to be anything with the chemicals. I could have over developed or such though. Not sure if this would create a clear negative or not... A lot of good advice from you guys. Have no idea but going to try and run through some of the things mentioned above.

JADoss23 · May 27, 2017

Is it possible that I was not leaving the lens shutter open when shooting with the focal plain shutter? Or is it supposed to stay closed. When I have it open on T I can see light through the GG.

removed account4 · May 27, 2017

sounds like that could be a possibility ..
the lens shutter has to be on T / B ( lockedopen )
to use the FP shutter .

JADoss23 · May 27, 2017

jnanian said:
sounds like that could be a possibility ..
the lens shutter has to be on T / B ( lockedopen )
to use the FP shutter .

When it's on T / B do I need to open the lens shutter? Is the curtain in front of the film holder to keep it from being exposed when the dark slide is removed before the FP shutter is used? Thanks so much

removed account4 · May 27, 2017

when the lens shutter is on T ( time ) / B ( bulb ) it IS wide open.
the curtain no slot at every shutter speed and a slot too.
and the "T" setting. when you press the body's release/trigger the slots travel infront of the film
and it stops traveling, at a full curtain / no slot and when you put it at T, it travels to "O" which is fully open.
you have to remember to close the lens shutter when you wind the FP shutter to your desired speed
since you will be putting the slot infront of the film ( or leave your darkslide infront of the film until you are ready to trip the shutter )

if you can get a copy of lester and lester / lester and morgan's graphic graflex photography, it is worth every penny you might spend on it
it explains all this with photographs and in better detail than i could attempt to explain it.

jimjm · May 27, 2017

Yep, you need to open the shutter on the lens if you're using the Focal Plane shutter.

mshchem · May 27, 2017

jimjm said:
Yep, you need to open the shutter on the lens if you're using the Focal Plane shutter.

+1

shutterfinger · May 27, 2017

jnanian said:
if you can get a copy of lester and lester / lester and morgan's graphic graflex photography, it is worth every penny you might spend on it
it explains all this with photographs and in better detail than i could attempt to explain it.

1958, 11th edition was the last edition of Graphic Graflex Photography http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...RS0&_nkw=graphic+graflex+photography&_sacat=0 . The pacemaker series of cameras was introduced in 1947, new editions of the book were not released each year. Check the published date to make sure it covers your camera.

Joe VanCleave · May 27, 2017

When exposing using the curtain shutter:

It's best to use the lever on the lens that bypasses the front shutter and opens the lens for previewing. Do this after the rear curtain shutter is cocked. Then remove the dark slide and trip the curtain shutter.

When using the curtain shutter keep the front lens shutter bypassed to open (preview mode).

Besides this exposure problem you're having, many of these old cameras have curtain shutters that are problematic; either the curtains have holes, or the spring tension is off. For starting out in LF, usually the front leaf shutter on the lens is more reliable, especially if the lens is newer than the camera.

Trouble with developing 4x5

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