Trouble with 4x5 processing

singram · Dec 11, 2007

Gang,
I just processed my first 10 sheets of 4x5 in I don't know how many years.

The half inch/quarter inch of film along one side looks to be a little less developed than the rest of the sheet. It is thinner, and has a streak in it.

I am using a Yankee film tank which holds 12 sheets at a time. Chemistry was D-76 1+1. I used a two minute water soak before the developer.

This has happened to me before, and then it has gone away. Any suggestions as to what I am doing wrong? I was thinking bubbles in the developer on the top layer of chemistry not developing the sheet film properly- maybe from over agitation? I do a 10 second side to side slosh for every minute.

Thanks in advance.

Steve

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 11, 2007

Are you using enough solution to fill the tank?

singram · Dec 11, 2007

David,
The top of the tank says 55 oz, and I always make an extra ounce just in case (56 oz).

steve

Colin Corneau · Dec 11, 2007

The problem is the Yankee tank itself -- it just doesn't develop well, and is prone to uneven development.

I found this out the hard way. Many people on this and other LF forums told me of this, so it's not just you or me.

singram · Dec 11, 2007

Colin,

Before APUG, there really wasn't a resource like this for me. Thanks! I was taught with a Combi Plan tank and moved to the Yankee because of a recommendation from my professor many years ago. Both tanks did the same thing- a thin edge on what I believe is the top of the film in the tank. It would come and go.

What is a better way to soup 4x5? I don't have a darkroom right now, hence the daylight developing tank. Any suggestions? (I guess dip and dunk and tray dev. are not going to work for me right now w/o a darkroom).

steve

bdial · Dec 11, 2007

One option would be a Jobo 2500 series tank and 4x5 reel. Using it as an inversion tank requires a ton of chemstry, but it works well. The reel will hold 6 sheets. You probably won't need the loader that is often featured with it. (IMHO).

Barry

dslater · Dec 11, 2007

singram said:
Colin,

Before APUG, there really wasn't a resource like this for me. Thanks! I was taught with a Combi Plan tank and moved to the Yankee because of a recommendation from my professor many years ago. Both tanks did the same thing- a thin edge on what I believe is the top of the film in the tank. It would come and go.

What is a better way to soup 4x5? I don't have a darkroom right now, hence the daylight developing tank. Any suggestions? (I guess dip and dunk and tray dev. are not going to work for me right now w/o a darkroom).

steve

Hi Steve,
I process my 4x5 film in a Jobo CPE-2 processor with a lift, a 2521 tank, and a 2509N reel. If you look around, you should be able to put this set together for around $400

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 11, 2007

If you can find the old Nikor sheet film tank, it will do 12 sheets at a time and generally sells for around $125-150. I posted the instruction sheet as an attachment around here somewhere. You should be able to turn it up in a search.

PHOTOTONE · Dec 12, 2007

The issue of uneven development can occur with any method of development using tanks, reels or hangers. My personal experience has proved to me that different films respond differently to the same development and agitation techniques. For example: My 4x5 b/w film is Fortepan 200, my 5x7 b/w film is Fomapan 200. My Fortepan sheets develop streak and blemish free with minimal agitation in my deep tank. My 5x7 Fomapan sheets require vigorous agitation every 15 seconds to develop even and streak free. I determined this through trial and error. It is developer and film dependent.

singram · Dec 12, 2007

Thanks everyone for your comments. I did a forum and Google search and found what Colin had mentioned- The Yankee tank does not do a very good job of developing negs, no matter what you do with it. But it makes a great print washer! (or a boat anchor, a flower pot, or looks great at the bottom of your garbage can )

I do have my 15 year old Combi tank that I had very little problems with, so in the mean time I think I will go back to it until I can afford a roller system of some sort.

Take care,
Steve

Trevor Crone · Dec 12, 2007

Singram, I use the Combi Plan tanks with very consistant results. In fact I use two. While the film is in tank 1 for the pre-soak, tank 2 is got ready for the developer. So from the pre-soak its straight into the developer in tank 2. Then tank 1 is got ready with the stop bath so after development is finished its again straight into the stop. Finaly tank 2 is prepared for the fix.

The inherent problem with the Combi's is the time it takes to fill and empty them which IMO is a recipy for disaster, this method (or use even more tanks) overcomes this problem.

I also use 1100ml developer rather then the 1000ml recommended.

It's easier then I've probably made it sound.

Regards,
Trevor.

dagabel · Dec 12, 2007

Steve - I use this method described by someone over on the LF forum: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=30099.
I'm relatively new to LF, but I haven't had any uneven development since I started using this technique with an old stainless steel tank.

Thanks,
Duane

k_jupiter · Dec 12, 2007

dagabel said:
Steve - I use this method described by someone over on the LF forum: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=30099.
I'm relatively new to LF, but I haven't had any uneven development since I started using this technique with an old stainless steel tank.

Thanks,
Duane

I have been using flexible tubes (from florescent light protectors cut up) for several years now, the only issue is the anti halation coating doesn't come off all the way. It takes a good washing to get rid of it on most films. I looked at his method, the equivalent of mine with screen instead. It's waiting for me to find the time to make some. I think it's a great idea. Patterson tanks work well for even processing.

tim in san jose

KenR · Dec 12, 2007

4x5 development

I've used the Combiplan tank for years without any problems. I often develop 6-12 sheets at a time using nylon screening between pairs of sheets as they recommend in the instructions that came with the tank. I use 36oz of chemistry in the tank with 10 sec. of aggitation every minute without any streaking or lines.

Colin Corneau · Dec 13, 2007

Until I get my paws on a Jobo, I think I'll try tray development...and the good lab I found, too! 8^)

eddie gunks · Dec 13, 2007

i use a daylight tank called "doran" it is similar to the yankee. i have had no uneven development on the 100s of negs i have processed. i use foma 100, tmax100 and hp5 with no problems. maybe i am just lucky.

eddie

DannL · Dec 13, 2007

I have experienced a similar problem with 120 film (top and bottom). I now do a semi-stand operation, 2 tank inversions every 30 sec. But this doesn't address your current problem with 4x5's. For 4x5's and 8x10's I use the Unicolor 8x10 dev tank and Uniroller. I only run two 4x5 sheets at a time for fear of something going totally wrong. I get consistent results, though. A inexpensive solution.

P C Headland · Dec 13, 2007

A really great daylight option is the Paterson Orbital. You can process up to four 4x5", two 5x7" or one 8x10" sheets at a time, using just 100-150ml of developer. Even development, no scratches and dead easy to load.

They can (I understand) be harder to find in the US, but they can be found on eBay UK.

DougGrosjean · Dec 13, 2007

I've been shooting LF 4x5 less than a year, and went through the Yankee phase too. Once in awhile it would work well, and I'd be wondering what I did differently.

Then I tried a slosher tray, in about an 11x14 tray. Worked great, doing 6 at a time, but often I don't have 6 to do, and while I recall it being less chemistry than the Yankee, it still seemed like a lot.

Then I went to processing in 5x7 trays. Scratched a few at first, but quickly got the hang of it. I'm pretty comfy now doing 4-6 sheets at a time. It's quite economical in terms of gear and chemistry, and if I wanted to I could even take the setup on a trip and do the work in a motel room bathroom.

raucousimages · Dec 14, 2007

I get good results with a yankee tank but I always fill it to the top and only do 4 to 6 sheets at a time not the 12 it will hold.

Colin Corneau · Dec 14, 2007

Same here, raucousimages, but I nonetheless got negs that were difficult (if not impossible) to print well in silver, and a PITA to clean up in Photoshop.

Mahler_one · Dec 14, 2007

Perhaps you might want to consider the BTZS tube system....I have not used ithe tumes, preferring the Jobo CPP with the expert tanks. However, I am sure that others here have been happy with the tubes, and they might want to chime in.

Edwin

seawolf66 · Dec 15, 2007

I have a FR daylight tank and got lucky and got myself a BTZS set of tubes and will be using it shortly , need to get some more developer
you do need to do some work in dark room like so my bath will be my dark room during the time till I get it in the fixer then its day light all the way

I load via a dark bag and can load developer in dark and process in day light and back to dark to get is ready for fixer [opps forgot the stop bath]

I does seam like more work for me but I do not mind , Since it only use's 2 oz of chemicals {VBG}

Charles Webb · Dec 17, 2007

Colin Corneau said:
The problem is the Yankee tank itself -- it just doesn't develop well, and is prone to uneven development.

I found this out the hard way. Many people on this and other LF forums told me of this, so it's not just you or me.

I just want to make a comment about the Yankee 4x5 plastic tanks.

I have used them exclusive for 4x5 black and white, color neg and Ektachrome since they first appeared for sale. In all these years I have never had any sort of developing problem when using them. To be quite frank, I don't think any one else has either. If the dark room is totally dark,
the tanks clean and filled to the proper level there is no way on earth that the tank can contribute to a defect in a negative. In the same period of time I have never found it necessary to presoak any negative before introducing them to the developer. I know it is popular and is said to be the thing to do when processing sheet film. With todays sheet film perhaps it is, but with Super HyPan, XX, Royal Pan,
Gaevert, Ektachrome or any other emulsion I may have used in the past presoaking was not essential to the process. For three days I have pondered how a simple four sided plastic tank could in any way effect the development of sheet film, in my mind those who claim that the Yankee tanks are no good and blame them for poor processing simply haven't a clue of what they are talking about.
My formula for excellent negative or positives is :

Dark room totally dark.

Tanks filled to a point above where the metal cross piece
and spring retainer is located in the hanger

Temperature correct.

Time.

Correct agitation! This is the most important part of developing any type of film. This is what creates even or uneven development not the Tank you are using.
Yankee tanks do not deserve the bum rap your are giving them, your negative problems are caused by only you!

Charlie...................................................

Charles Webb · Dec 17, 2007

My normal run for yankee Tanks is 12 sheets, two or three will be no better than 12. My opinion based on experience using them!

Trouble with 4x5 processing

singram

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

singram

Colin Corneau

singram

bdial

dslater

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

PHOTOTONE

singram

Trevor Crone

dagabel

k_jupiter

KenR

Colin Corneau

eddie gunks

DannL

P C Headland

DougGrosjean

raucousimages

Colin Corneau

Mahler_one

seawolf66

Charles Webb

Charles Webb

Trouble with 4x5 processing

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