Tripod and Head for 5x7

paxette · Mar 25, 2008

I bought a B&J Commercial View awhile back and, my poor old tripod isn't exactly up to the task of holding it up. I've done a bunch of research on ye old internets then, took a trip into the big city to feel a few up that I was interested in. I was only able to find one tripod, the Manfrotto 055XB (Bogen 3021), that's on my list of possibilities at the camera shops I went too ...

I'm also considering the 055XProB but I wonder - having used a video tripod for so long - whether I really need a built in lateral arm. Because I couldn't feel one up, can anyone tell me if there is anything on the con side I should be aware of with this leg set? Construction, fitment, stability? Anything else I might have missed?

For the head I was considering the Manfrotto 410 compact gear head. Everything I've read has been positive ... for 4x5. But what about a heftier 5x7? Am I being too optimistic considering the camera weight which is about 6.5lbs without lens or extention rail? I would prefer to get the 405 head instead but, it alone would bust my whole tripod/head budget and, I would really like to use my new camera!

Thanks in advance for the help (and the hand holding)

Tom Hoskinson · Mar 25, 2008

I use a Gitzo Carbon Composite Tripod With an Arca Swiss Ballhead for my 5x7 Deardorff. Richard Ritter installed a Really Right Stuff Arca-Swiss compatible QR Plate on the Deardorff for me.

petrdvorak · Mar 25, 2008

Look at Berlebach tripods. I am considering 2042 for my 5x7 cameras and my Dorff V8. It has a leveling center column that's usually all you need for landscape or architecture work.

papagene · Mar 25, 2008

I use the Bogen 3021 with the 3030 head for both the Calumet Cadet 4x5 and an old Kodak 2D 5x7 camera. They both weigh 6+ lbs and I have had no problems with either camera on this set up.

gene

htswv · Mar 26, 2008

I used a Bogen 3021 with the 3030 head with my 5x7 Canham which weighs about 6lbs. It worked okay but the small mounting plate made me extremely nervous, especially with the 1/4" screw...it wasn't exactly steady in windy conditions but that's a problem with any large camera with the bellows extended. I finally made the jump to a Ries j100 with the 250 head and have been very happy....expensive but worth every penny.

paxette · Mar 26, 2008

thanks everyone.

I thought about the B1 but the general consensus seems to be ball heads aren't great for large format (plan to use the camera for studio and lugging it out into the local wilderness) so next up was compact gear heads because the other 3 way heads have arms sticking out everywhere and they bother me on the tripod I have.

I wondered about the mounting plates but more so the screw. My current tripod screw can't even catch the first thread on the bottom of the camera, it sticks out about 1/8th from the plate. Does anyone know off hand if Manfrotto makes longer ones or can I solve the problem with a trip to the local hardware store?

thanks again.

Deckled Edge · Mar 26, 2008

At one time I tried to use ball heads on my larger view cameras. Bad idea. OK for 4x5, but the OK factor goes down exponentially with the increasing weight and volume of the camera. My Gitzo low profile 3-way head on a wooden Crown tripod is VERY secure and positive in the field. I don't remember the model #, but it cost about $250. It came with a 1/4 x 20 and a 3/8 screw, which protrude up to 5/8 in. from the mounting plate, which itself is 3x5 in.
I would be much less picky about the tripod unless you plan to backpack it. You're lookin' at 600 bones for the carbon fiber ones. Used wood is nice, good vibration damping, but a little fumbly in the field.

Tom Hoskinson · Mar 26, 2008

Deckled Edge said:
At one time I tried to use ball heads on my larger view cameras. Bad idea. OK for 4x5, but the OK factor goes down exponentially with the increasing weight and volume of the camera. My Gitzo low profile 3-way head on a wooden Crown tripod is VERY secure and positive in the field. I don't remember the model #, but it cost about $250. It came with a 1/4 x 20 and a 3/8 screw, which protrude up to 5/8 in. from the mounting plate, which itself is 3x5 in.
I would be much less picky about the tripod unless you plan to backpack it. You're lookin' at 600 bones for the carbon fiber ones. Used wood is nice, good vibration damping, but a little fumbly in the field.

I find that my Arca-Swiss B1 works great with my 8x10 Wehmann and my 5x7 Deardoff.

sanking · Mar 26, 2008

Deckled Edge said:
At one time I tried to use ball heads on my larger view cameras. Bad idea. OK for 4x5, but the OK factor goes down exponentially with the increasing weight and volume of the camera.

I am with you on this. I have tried several ball heads for 5X7 but wound up hating them all. I put a lot of effort into getting the camera level and plumb and ball heads are just much more difficult to work with than 3-way pan heads. The ball heads are smaller and lighter but in every other way the 3-way pan heads are far superior IMO.

Sandy King

jmcd · Mar 26, 2008

I will vouch for a great, effective tripod for 5x7 or 8x10—Ries J110-2 with a J250 double tilt head. The set-up is rock solid, and smooth to operate. The J100 tripod is lighter and will work well, but I think it is better suited to 4x5, if your goal is dependable stability.

RobC · Mar 26, 2008

Just an observation but those manfrotto geared heads you are looking at, were designed for 35mm and medium format. Not largeformat.
I use a Slik DX700 head for 35mm, Medium Format and 4x5. It is a 3 way head with two arms (which screw out easily if needed for packing). It's cheap but rock solid and very smooth to operate. I've dropped it with my manfrotto 055 tripod into sea water and it still works fine. Its a very robust combination and well suited to field work. Not the lightest but very sturdy.

John Koehrer · Mar 26, 2008

Like anything else involving humans everyone's got an opinion.
Gitzo or Ries, in mine. I've used a gitzo 1341 w/rapid column & the 410 head and a zone Vl. the Gitzo was lighter, could swap out the column if you wanted ground level. The older aluminum ones are less expensive but heavier than the carbon fiber variety.
Still like the Bogus 410 head though. Longer screws at the hardware are 1/4-20" or 3/8-16" if you use a hardware store screw, sometimes it's easier to grind a small section near the head so it won't catch the threads in the plate.
Take a look at the screw you have & you'll see what I mena.

edz · Mar 26, 2008

paxette said:
I bought a B&J Commercial View awhile back and, my poor old tripod isn't exactly up to the task of holding it up.

The Gitzo 1341 might be light but its not a terribly strong tripod. With a price above the $400.00 USD mark I don't think its a terribly good option for a longer term investment.
For less than these I'd suggest a good 2nd hand Bolex tripod with its pan/tilt head. They were designed for the H-16 16mm cameras (weight can be as much as 3 kg) but are just as well suited to most moderate sized view cameras (some people are quite happy to stick their 8x10" and larger cameras on them and I've seen quite a few people use the Bolex legs with a heavy fluid head to support larger 16mm cameras). Quality was very high. They are robust, low vibration and relatively light (under 4 kg). The rapid attachment device (quick release) on the head is also very quick, strong, robust and torsionally rigid. A very good choice. Wooden tripods are nice but much heavier. The only step up I'd personally consider (leaving price aside) for the field would be a pair of Sachtler carbon legs (not much lighter but faster). I'd consider most of the current Linhof a step down if not a step sideways--- their heavyweight tripods are nice but just too heavy.

paxette · Mar 27, 2008

Just an observation but those manfrotto geared heads you are looking at, were designed for 35mm and medium format. Not largeformat.

Yeah ... but there are folks who aren't using them for their intended purpose and have no complaints. Which has me wondering, how far above the cameras actual weight do you need to go for it to be stable? All of this is new territory for me and, since I'm buying something that's going to last a long time I'd rather try to get it right from the beginning. I don't want to be a victim of "oooh! Shiny ..."

edz · Mar 27, 2008

paxette said:
Just an observation but those manfrotto geared heads you are looking at, were designed for 35mm and medium format. Not largeformat.

Yeah ... but there are folks who aren't using them for their intended purpose and have no complaints. Which has me wondering, how far above the cameras actual weight do you need to go for it to be stable? All of this is new territory for me and, since I'm buying something that's going to last a long time I'd rather try to get it right from the beginning. I don't want to be a victim of "oooh! Shiny ..."

The 410 head claims to be for up to 5 kg. That's really not sufficient. 5x7" gear is not typically that much larger or heavier than 4x5" gear but that still more than the SLR camera that the 410 was designed for. It might seem to be sufficiently "ooooh Shiny" to pick up alongside that new DSLR and big zoom but its really just that... In looking at support systems you really need to view "up to" as that (max.). 5 kg can be really "ideally", at most, 2 maybe 3 kg. Fine for modern plastic but some old brass, steel and glass can be really quite heavy (heck, I have 35mm camera bodies that push 1 kg)..... For even something like a modern DV camera (which can get up around 10 kg) one looks at support that should take 30 kg payloads.. Same kind of factor, I think, you should take in account here..

dneilson · Mar 27, 2008

I have used the 410 head with a Korona 5X7 and it works just fine. I have a couple 3221 tripods as well. Although I have not tried them with the 5X7, my guess is that although usable, they would be marginal with the 410 head and a 5X7 camera. The 410 head is a little tall and I think that you would be getting top heavy with that light of a tripod. If you spread the legs out to the second click for a wider stance, you would have a lot more stability and probably be ok with that set up.
As for the ball head issue, I have an Arca B1 and like it a lot. I find it quicker to use, more compact and lighter weight than my other heads. It is also shorter than my other heads which keeps it closer to the tripod and therefor sturdier. For packing around with a light weight tripod, that's what I would normally use with any field camera up to my 8X10 Deardorff. I hate it with a mono-rail camera though.
Good luck on your decision. What you will find is that there is no perfect combination of camera, tripod and head that cover all situations and that everybody has a different opinion.

John Koehrer · Mar 28, 2008

edz said:
The Gitzo 1341 might be light but its not a terribly strong tripod. With a price above the $400.00 USD mark I don't think its a terribly good option for a longer term investment.

It's neither light nor weak.......Gitzo claims 22# capacity and a weight of 7.25 lbs for the 1340.

Bandicoot · Mar 31, 2008

I was of the 'I hate every ball head I ever met' school of thought too until I got an Arca B1. (Subsequently I have a Kirk head that is very nice for 35mm and OK for MF, but not relevant for anything bigger.)

The Arca, because of its non-spherical ball, really works very well for LF for me, certainly up to 5x7 and I have used it for 10x8 though generally don't. For architecture I often prefer a P&T head though, and at home in the studio I use an ancient Majestic geared head.

Peter

michael9793 · Mar 31, 2008

ries is the best I have three of then. but for backbpacking a carbon fiber series 2 or 3 from gitzo with a off center ball head can't be beat.

michael andersen

c6h6o3 · Mar 31, 2008

michael9793 said:
ries is the best I have three of then. but for backbpacking a carbon fiber series 2 or 3 from gitzo with a off center ball head can't be beat.

michael andersen

Do you have the Ries J600? I put a luggage strap on the case (incredibly not provided by Ries) and sling it over my shoulder and I'm good for many miles of hiking. I think it's fine for any 8x10 short of a 'Dorff. (or any other triple extension camera).

TheFlyingCamera · Mar 31, 2008

I'd second the Gitzo legset recommendation, but with the substitution of the 1325 or so low-profile pan-tilt head. The off-center balls don't have nearly enough camera platform to be stable supporting a 5x7, especially a field camera.

michael9793 · Apr 1, 2008

I use my off set with my 8x10 and it works perfect. not as good as my reis but we know that is the best

Nick Zentena · Apr 1, 2008

paxette said:
Just an observation but those manfrotto geared heads you are looking at, were designed for 35mm and medium format. Not largeformat.

Yeah ... but there are folks who aren't using them for their intended purpose and have no complaints. Which has me wondering, how far above the cameras actual weight do you need to go for it to be stable? All of this is new territory for me and, since I'm buying something that's going to last a long time I'd rather try to get it right from the beginning. I don't want to be a victim of "oooh! Shiny ..."

It's not just the camera of course. You've got a lens on there to. With a 35mm it's likely a big heavy lens on front of the camera with the tripod screwed to the camera. That's a teetter totter isn't it? With LF odds are the lens is much lighter then the camera. With some cameras you'll have multiple tripod mounts or at the very least you can adjust things so the whole setup is balanced over the tripod.

TheFlyingCamera · Apr 1, 2008

michael9793 said:
I use my off set with my 8x10 and it works perfect. not as good as my reis but we know that is the best

Mike-

which offset and which 8x10? I have a Gitzo 12xx offset ball head and I wouldn't use it with anything bigger than my 4x5 field camera. I tried it on my 5x7, and it was a bad combination. I just think ballheads in general are a less-than-optimal combination for larger format cameras, and they decrease in desireability as camera size goes up. Now, if Majestic were to make ballheads, I'd consider one for an 11x14

Doug Webb · Apr 2, 2008

I have used the Bogen 3021 with a Bogen 3047 pan tilt head on my Agfa Ansco 5x7. It is workable, but you have to be careful because the tripod is a little light for this setup, especially in wind, and the tripod and head are pretty much pushed to the limit with a camera this heavy. The tripod is rated to support 13 pounds, the tripod and head I have weigh about 7 pounds, maybe 8. The quick release mounts have an adjustable screw, adjustable in the sense that you can make it longer or shorter, so getting it to seat on your camera mount wouldn't be a problem. Bogen also makes a big quick release that is about 4 inches square which might help if your camera needs something like that. It is important to be able to balance the camera on a tripod this light. I haven't used the camera you are talking about, but if you can move the mount so that the weight is distributed equally front to back, you would be probably be able to use it on the Bogen 3021. You could probably buy a used Bogen 3021 and head for a reasonable price, just be sure everything is stable and locks down tight, because if the head won't lock down really tight, you won't be able to use it on such a big camera. Of course there are better combinations, but I don't know of a workable setup that would be cheaper than the Bogen 3021.
Good luck,
Doug Webb

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