Trick or method for putting the film holder into the camera back?

PFGS · Oct 26, 2020

I always seem to have a terrible time getting my 4x5 film holders into the back of the camera. It's all I can do to cram it in there without tipping over the tripod, let alone keeping focus etc. I have a couple different backs, graflok and older spring back, no difference. All efforts to google are swamped with "how to load film holders" demos, a process I have no trouble with. Is there something I'm missing?

Rick A · Oct 26, 2020

One does not "cram" a film holder into the back of a view camera. I gently pull the GG frame open and insert the holder in until it's about half way in, then brace the back with my hand and push until the holder clicks into place.

PFGS · Oct 26, 2020

Rick A said:
One does not "cram" a film holder into the back of a view camera. I gently pull the GG frame open and insert the holder in until it's about half way in, then brace the back with my hand and push until the holder clicks into place.

I don't literally cram it, it just always feels that way. I also pull the frame open similar to what you describe, but it just feels awkward. Probably I just need practice.

Kino · Oct 26, 2020

The old Kodak/Calumet 4x5's had a bail that would lift the back spring up to allow for easier insertion. Maybe you could find one of those bails and adapt it to your camera?

shutterfinger · Oct 26, 2020

Fingers of the left hand on the top of the camera body pressing down then with the thumb push the focus panel back until the film holder will just fit into the opening, push the holder in until it contacts the focus panel, release the focus panel from your thumb, the film holder should be 1/3 to 1/2 its length in the frame slot, pull back about 1/8 inch with the film holder then push the film holder in until it comes to the end of the holder frame. Ensure the light trap is seated in its grove.

Alan9940 · Oct 26, 2020

My method is pretty much as described above. The only thing I might do a little different, depending on the camera, is to gently pull back on the left side (assuming holder is being inserted from right to left) once the holder is about 1/2 way in. I do this "trick" only if I generally have a bit of trouble inserting the holder. I will say, too, that two of my 4x5's are very easy to insert a holder, while my Arca-Swiss is more difficult; therefore, cameras may vary in this regard.

Rick A · Oct 26, 2020

PFGS said:
I don't literally cram it, it just always feels that way. I also pull the frame open similar to what you describe, but it just feels awkward. Probably I just need practice.

Yes, practice. It may help to clean and polish the backs of your cameras, remove the GG panel and give a light waxing.

Pieter12 · Oct 26, 2020

PFGS said:
I always seem to have a terrible time getting my 4x5 film holders into the back of the camera. It's all I can do to cram it in there without tipping over the tripod, let alone keeping focus etc. I have a couple different backs, graflok and older spring back, no difference. All efforts to google are swamped with "how to load film holders" demos, a process I have no trouble with. Is there something I'm missing?

If you're not exaggerating, as well as learning to insert the holder without disturbing the camera too much, I would certainly suggest a heavier-duty tripod, possibly adding a counterweight.

Donald Qualls · Oct 26, 2020

Pieter12 said:
If you're not exaggerating, as well as learning to insert the holder without disturbing the camera too much, I would certainly suggest a heavier-duty tripod, possibly adding a counterweight.

This was going to be my suggestion, too. Ignore those spindly old coat pocket tripods -- they're intended for 35mm folding cameras used with cable release. A large format press or field camera needs something seriously sturdy, and then some weight (either inherent like my aluminum surveying tripod, or hung from the center column) to keep it steady.

Vaughn · Oct 26, 2020

I semi-cram mine in -- not much else one can do with 8x10 and especially 11x14. My 4x5 has the bail back. A finger on the GG and one on the bail handle and that is easily opened without moving the camera, then locks into place fully open if I wish. The camera is 2.5 pounds so it can otherwise be easily moved without much force.

For non-bail such as my 110 year old 5x7, I introduce the holder to the camera back by holding the film holder in one hand and opening the back for the holder with the other. The back is opened using counter forces -- as a finger(s) pushes the back open (GG frame), a finger(s) is putting the same force in the opposite direction on the camera body...no camera movement.

Once the holder in fully in the opening of the back, the hand not holding the holder goes to the opposite side of the camera back and that had supplies the opposite force to the other hand sliding in the holder. As the holder's light-trap/ridge approaches the back, the fingers of the hand pushing the holder supply counter-forces on the back and holder to lift the holder off the back slightly to clear the ridge. 11x14 varies a bit due to size (not a lot of one-handing the holder!)

I figure the more you slide holders in slicker the wood will get. I would avoid any wax or lube that will pick up dirt, transfer to the holders, and get on one's hands in the field

Do it a few thousand times with different camera styles and sizes and it becomes automatic. I have to recompose much less often now!

Edited to add -- I do a visual check to see if the holder is inserted all the way, and give a slight tug on the holder to make sure the light-trap ridge is well-seated in the camera back. These are habitual double-checks in case of a possible prior piss-poor performance. On a particular important image and often just for the halibut, I will check the GG after I have exposed the film...just to see if the camera has moved -- perhaps due to not double-checking the tightness of all the various controls on the camera, head, and pod. And since I am there, might as well check if there is a good image behind me...

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 26, 2020

If you have a wooden camera, wipe down edges of a holder with Pledge furniture polish. Holder should then slide in and out with ease. Has worked for me for years.

PFGS · Oct 26, 2020

Thanks all - I would definitely call this civility and patience in response to my ridiculous question. It sounds like nothing is fundamentally wrong, but that there is a smidge of finesse involved so I will keep at it. I think partly it's just psychological, after having fussed with all these little adjustments to set up the shot, the film holder feels more violent a motion than it really is. And my tripod is adequate, but no better than that, so I might start looking for an upgrade.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 26, 2020

PFGS said:
I always seem to have a terrible time getting my 4x5 film holders into the back of the camera. It's all I can do to cram it in there without tipping over the tripod, let alone keeping focus etc. I have a couple different backs, graflok and older spring back, no difference. All efforts to google are swamped with "how to load film holders" demos, a process I have no trouble with. Is there something I'm missing?

First, make sure your tripod head is locked and the rear standard is also locked. I pull the ground glass back far enough to insert it half-way without the back touching the holder. Insert the film holder halfway and release the back. The film holder and back should be parallel allowing you to fully insert the holder. Have you tried a little wax on your camera to help the holder slide into your camera?

PFGS · Oct 26, 2020

Mainecoonmaniac said:
First, make sure your tripod head is locked and the rear standard is also locked. I pull the ground glass back far enough to insert it half-way without the back touching the holder. Insert the film holder halfway and release the back. The film holder and back should be parallel allowing you to fully insert the holder. Have you tried a little wax on your camera to help the holder slide into your camera?

Several people have suggested wax (or Pledge) but my camera is Frankensteined up out of mostly a Super Speed Graphic and is all-metal - would that still apply?

Kino · Oct 27, 2020

Sure. A bit of paraffin wax lightly rubbed on the rails should help, but I'd avoid Pledge on metal. If it were Wood, or your holders are wood, then a tiny amount would be fine. A deceased friend of mine used to keep a very small stub of a candle in his camera bag just in case his holders started to bind on insertion.

Inserting 4x5 film holders without botching compositions or focus is a classic hurdle to overcome; pretty much everyone I know has has the problem and it just takes time and practice to overcome this issue.

Try loading the holders into the camera back while watching TV (if you can get away with it). The more you do it, the more muscle memory is developed and better results follow. At least it worked for me...

Cholentpot · Oct 27, 2020

PFGS said:
Thanks all - I would definitely call this civility and patience in response to my ridiculous question. It sounds like nothing is fundamentally wrong, but that there is a smidge of finesse involved so I will keep at it. I think partly it's just psychological, after having fussed with all these little adjustments to set up the shot, the film holder feels more violent a motion than it really is. And my tripod is adequate, but no better than that, so I might start looking for an upgrade.

It's not crazy. I'm new to 4x5 and my current biggest problem is inserting the holder without moving the camera. And I have a nice big 'ol sturdy tripod, but if I push too hard the camera spins a bit and I have to start all over...or I just give up and use the rangefinder.

138S · Oct 27, 2020

Cholentpot said:
It's not crazy. I'm new to 4x5 and my current biggest problem is inserting the holder without moving the camera.

If no movements are used effects are minor, but if there is a tilt/swing then a little change in the direction, of course, may move a lot the plane of focus. The tripod head can be "elastic" but it has to return to the original direction after holder insertion.

Personaly, I had been using a toy laser pointer placed in the front standard to learn three things:

> If the camera returns exactly to the original direction after the holder insertion.

> To see how much time takes to stop the vibration after the holder insertion, it was shorter time than I was tinking, (some 2s with SC 8x10 and my sturdy/heavy/ancient Bilora).

> Wind effect, specially for 8x10. If we point some 50m far and we go there we see the vibration amplitude and what it would be blurred because of wing, taking the magnification (from distance vs focal) we even my know the precise numeric resolution impact, that we can compare to typical LF lens resolving power, of course at all it is not not necessary to make the walk every time, this is just a tool to learn our tripod steadiness in different wind conditions.

Craig · Oct 27, 2020

My cameras all have removable backs, so I can turn from vertical to horizontal framing. I always remove the back, insert the film holder and then put the back/holder assembly on the camera. The backs slide into their catches on the camera body quite easily and I don't disturb the focus or movements while putting the back on the camera if you do it gently and deliberately.

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 27, 2020

If it were Wood, or your holders are wood, then a tiny amount would be fine.

That's why I said wood camera...A wee bit on the edge of plastic holders is fine. You don't want to bung it on. I've been doing it for years.

PFGS · Oct 27, 2020

Craig said:
My cameras all have removable backs, so I can turn from vertical to horizontal framing. I always remove the back, insert the film holder and then put the back/holder assembly on the camera. The backs slide into their catches on the camera body quite easily and I don't disturb the focus or movements while putting the back on the camera if you do it gently and deliberately.

My B&J tailboard is made that way, but it's such a beast to haul around that I've been using my junk-box Graphic instead. I've committed to finishing at least this 50 sheet box to see if I stick with LF before I upgrade, but if and when I go to buy a nice wooden field camera, I'll definitely be looking for this feature.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 27, 2020

PFGS said:
Several people have suggested wax (or Pledge) but my camera is Frankensteined up out of mostly a Super Speed Graphic and is all-metal - would that still apply?

I would not use Pledge but something more robust like candle wax.

Maris · Oct 27, 2020

Getting the film holder in according to the best advice in this thread solves most problems BUT being a pessimist I also give the camera back a squeeze on all four corners to make sure the film holder is really seated securely.

Then comes a dangerous move ... pulling the darkslide. Again I squeeze the back shut so that the force of pulling the slide doesn't open a tiny gap and condemn the negative to light-strike.

Kino · Oct 27, 2020

Good idea...

rjbuzzclick · Oct 27, 2020

I occasionally just wipe my film holder edges and darkslides down with a piece of wax paper and that seems to help them move in and out of the camera easily.

Trick or method for putting the film holder into the camera back?

PFGS

Rick A

PFGS

Kino

shutterfinger

Alan9940

Rick A

Pieter12

Donald Qualls

Vaughn

Andrew O'Neill

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Trick or method for putting the film holder into the camera back?

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