Tri-X Professional curve linearisation

Petzi · Apr 30, 2006

Tri-X 320 (Professional) has a non-linear characteristic curve. Can anyone share their experience in linearising that during processing?

Example in HC-110:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4017/f009_0497ac.gif

D-76 seems to work a little better:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4017/f009_0496ac.gif

Compare this to T-Max 400 (in T-Max developer):

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4016/f002_0507ac.gif

joneil · Apr 30, 2006

For me, it is precisely the fact that Tri-x has a "long toe" or a non-linear curve is exactly why I like the film and what gives the film it's unique look. If you a want a traditional, more linear film, try HP5+

joe

clay · Apr 30, 2006

Harvey's 777 straightens out the curve quite nicely. You'll have to deal with longer times, but it makes the curve much more linear than any other developer I have encountered.

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 30, 2006

I like that look. It's what gives Tri-X it's strong sense of line.

If you want something similar to TXP or the old TXT with more modulated highlights, try J&C/fotoimpex Classic 400. You can even use your development times for Tri-X as a starting point. I like them both.

df cardwell · Apr 30, 2006

TXP was designed with a specific purpose in mind. it was the latest in a long succession of films traditionally called "portrait films". If you want a different curve shape, use Tri X, TMY, or something else.

c6h6o3 · Apr 30, 2006

Since you seem to be striving to make TriX display the same curve characteristics as TMax, I can't help but ask: why not just use TMax?

As Clay stated, 400TMax in Harvey's is straight as a die, right on out to about Zone 12.

MMfoto · Apr 30, 2006

Come on guys. If he wants to shoot Tri-x it is surely for more reason than simply it's curve shape other wise he wouldn't be asking. Maybe he likes the grain structure or some indescribable "feel." Isn't that why we're all here?

*Edit* I almost forgot I was online. That was not meant to read as hostile to anyone!

avandesande · May 1, 2006

You get answers the caliber of the question. If he has some ulterior motive for using it he should say why. Maybe he inherited 1000 rolls of the stuff? But at this point it looks like a square peg in a round hole question.

MMfoto said:
Come on guys. If he wants to shoot Tri-x it is surely for more reason than simply it's curve shape other wise he wouldn't be asking. Maybe he likes the grain structure or some indescribable "feel." Isn't that why we're all here?

*Edit* I almost forgot I was online. That was not meant to read as hostile to anyone!

Petzi · May 1, 2006

c6h6o3 said:
Since you seem to be striving to make TriX display the same curve characteristics as TMax, I can't help but ask: why not just use TMax?.

There is a simple reason for that: They don't make T-Max in 220 rolls. Tri-X 320 is the only b/w film that is available in 220 format, so I will try to work with that though I have never touched a roll of Tri-X in my life. Actually I have a pro-pack here, but I haven't touched the rolls in it yet...

I want to use it for exterior shots exclusively, never for portraits.

Petzi · May 1, 2006

clay said:
Harvey's 777 straightens out the curve quite nicely. You'll have to deal with longer times, but it makes the curve much more linear than any other developer I have encountered.

Fine grain developer is a good idea though I don't believe Harvey's 777 is available to me.

MMfoto · May 1, 2006

Petzi said:
Fine grain developer is a good idea though I don't believe Harvey's 777 is available to me.

I don't see why it couldn't be shipped to you? Though the trouble and expense may be a little extreme just to sample it. 777 is very beautifull with Tri-x and gives a wonderfull tight grain with this film. Wonderfull tonality. Not a look for everyone though.

David Beal · May 1, 2006

There are a lot of comments that suggest TXP is best used as a studio film, as it is less like to show blown highlights than 400 TX. You may not be happy with TXP in natural light. To each his own ...

Good shooting.

/s/ David Beal
Memories Preserved Photography, LLC

df cardwell · May 1, 2006

Lachlan Young · May 1, 2006

MMfoto said:
I don't see why it couldn't be shipped to you? Though the trouble and expense may be a little extreme just to sample it. 777 is very beautifull with Tri-x and gives a wonderfull tight grain with this film. Wonderfull tonality. Not a look for everyone though.

What sort of times/ EI s are you getting? As it is panthermic and replenished I imagine temperature and dilution will be of no consequence.

All help much appreciated,

Lachlan

clay · May 1, 2006

Lousy screen capture showing TX professional in 777.. Sheet film in trays.

Lachlan Young said:
What sort of times/ EI s are you getting? As it is panthermic and replenished I imagine temperature and dilution will be of no consequence.

All help much appreciated,

Lachlan

Lachlan Young · May 1, 2006

clay said:
Lousy screen capture showing TX professional in 777.. Sheet film in trays.

How do I read the relevant information off the graph?

Thanks,

Lachlan

clay · May 1, 2006

Well, it is hard. I don't mix well with windows. The screen capture is awful. The main thing this illustrates is how nicely it straightens out the curve. If you have access to a copy of WinPlotter, I can email you the file for you to use. Short of that, I guess I'll just tell you:

9 minutes at 73 degrees with intermittent agitation will give you a CI of 0.55, which is appropriate for normal contrast scenes and gelatin-silver printing. Film speed is about 160.

777 is still available from Bluegrass Packaging in Kentucky.

Lachlan Young · May 1, 2006

clay said:
Well, it is hard. I don't mix well with windows. The screen capture is awful. The main thing this illustrates is how nicely it straightens out the curve. If you have access to a copy of WinPlotter, I can email you the file for you to use. Short of that, I guess I'll just tell you:

9 minutes at 73 degrees with intermittent agitation will give you a CI of 0.55, which is appropriate for normal contrast scenes and gelatin-silver printing. Film speed is about 160.

777 is still available from Bluegrass Packaging in Kentucky.

Thanks for your help - now all I need to get is a bag of 777 and two 64 fl oz bottles...

Lachlan

df cardwell · May 1, 2006

Clay

What would you suggest that was available in Europe ?

Lachlan Young · May 1, 2006

df cardwell said:
Clay

What would you suggest that was available in Europe ?

Don,
A quick guess would be Calbe/Adox A49 - it seemed to come up in the discussion about Edwal 10/12 (that reminds me - I really must order some glycin to try out Edwal 10 - how is it going?). A49 appears to give full emulsion speed and very fine grain through its use of a ppd derivative called CD2 - seems that virtually everyone who has tried it speaks very highly of the stuff. I comes in packages of powder to make 1 Litre and must be used within a few weeks of mixing.

Hope this helps,

Lachlan

P.S. trying some A49 will be next on the list after the Edwal 10, 777, Ansco 130 etc...

Petzi · May 1, 2006

clay said:
Well, it is hard. I don't mix well with windows. The screen capture is awful. The main thing this illustrates is how nicely it straightens out the curve.

Thanks Clay that is very interesting.

You can make a screen capture of only the active window by pressing Alt-Print by the way.

Petzi · May 1, 2006

I searched for A49 and came up with this, apparently others have found A49 to be optimal with 220 rolls of TXP.

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00CPTo

MMfoto · May 1, 2006

Lachlan Young said:
What sort of times/ EI s are you getting? As it is panthermic and replenished I imagine temperature and dilution will be of no consequence.

All help much appreciated,

Lachlan

I shoot TX at EI200, and I'm sorry but I can't remember my times right now. I haven't used this stuff in about a year. One important thing to remember though is that 777 is NOT panthermic in the way some developers are. Diafine is panthermic meaning you can develop in at a wide range of temperatures and still get consistant results. 777 is panthermic meaning that you should able to obtain a consistant contrast curve over a wide range of temperatures when you DO adjust for time and temperature. I hope that makes sence.

As you are in Europe, I would see if you like the ATM49 or whatever it's called these days. I have not used it, but it sounds like a good canidate and may yield higher EI's if you believe what you hear. It will certainly be easier to get your hands on.

Good luck!

Petzi · May 2, 2006

Now I need a curve for 320TXP in ATM49 or I need a source for Harvey's 777 in Europe.

c6h6o3 · May 3, 2006

MMfoto said:
777 is panthermic meaning that you should able to obtain a consistant contrast curve over a wide range of temperatures when you DO adjust for time and temperature.

I would add one caveat: never use 777 at temperatures below 72 degrees F. I shoot for 74 myself, but it's just fine at 80 degrees. Below 72, however, you'll lose too much shadow detail. It is definitely very NON-linear at that temperature.

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