Tri-X at 200 - how to develop?

antielectrons · Mar 27, 2005

Hello,

I have been reading many of the posts here and see that shootiing Tri-X at 200 ASA is an option preferred by quite a few of you.

I thought I would give this a go myself but do not have acess to a darkroom at the moment and will have to have my film developed comercially.

Question: Should I inform the lab that I shot at EI200 and ask them to adjust development accordingly or should I say nothing and let them process normally.

As far as I understand the process, by shooting at 200ASA I will be increasing shadow detail and the film has enough latitude not to burn out the highlights, however development affects contrast and therefore I should not need to change this unless I wish to alter the contrast in my negs - is this correct?

Any advice welcome.
Antonio

david b · Mar 27, 2005

Decrease developement by 20%

Neal · Mar 27, 2005

Dear Antonio,

You have a solid grasp of the situation. Do not have them change development unless you had an extremely high contrast scene (more than 8 stops) and are worried about losing detail in the highlights.

Neal Wydra

lee · Mar 27, 2005

both replys are good info. I maybe would ask them to back off their normal time by 15% but would not quible with the 20% that david b suggested.

lee\c

George Collier · Mar 27, 2005

As Neal indicated, exposure controls density (evaluated in the thin areas, or "shadows"), development controls contrast, (evaluated in the highlights and overall tonal separation). The simple approach is to do a test roll with different speed ratings (keep good records) and have it processed. Then print on your favorite paper. If too flat, use higher contrast paper, but then next roll tell the lab to increase (maybe 20%??, depending on how flat the first roll was), and go from there. If too contrasty, do the opposite, but get the exposure right first (by looking at shadow detail), then go after the development time.

photobackpacker · Mar 27, 2005

No "sage advice" to add except to say that the best someone can do is to suggest a starting point. The density you get in your shadow area will depend upon your meter, and your development process. If you are relying on others to do your development, find out how they control their process. If they are wishy-washy about their effort and focus on producing consistency, keep looking. I have three Kodak thermometers in my darkroom that vary by 1.25 degrees @ 75 degrees f. That is more than enough to cause different results in a development run.

The moral is - your meter can be inaccurate, your thermometer can be off, your developer dilution can be off and your timer can be inaccurate. As long as all of them are consisently wrong, if you have matched them to your desired results, you will be in great shape.

kiku · Mar 27, 2005

antielectrons said:
Hello,
I have been reading many of the posts here and see that shootiing Tri-X at 200 ASA is an option preferred by quite a few of you. Antonio

Hi Antonio: You failed to mention which Tri-X! ISO 320 or 400?
Cordially, Kiku

lee · Mar 27, 2005

blaughn said wisely, "I have three Kodak thermometers in my darkroom that vary by 1.25 degrees @ 75 degrees f."

wasnt there a saying that stated "a man with 3 watches is never sure of the time, but a man with 1 watch always knows the time"?

we hone our skills with the equipment we use. our processess are based on the same equipment. As we tighten our control of process, we do so based on the exposure meter and the thermometers and our densitometers and if we mix our own chemistry our scales. They do not have to be accurate to the nth degree just reasonable and consistant as do our methods of work.

lee\c

antielectrons · Mar 27, 2005

Hi,

Thanks for all your feedback.

The shots were taked today, late afternoon on an overcast day so I am not too concerned about contrast on this one and as I dont have access to an enlarger either at present I am just going to see what comes back with no additioanl instructions for my Tri-X 400 shot @EI200, and use that as a basis for some kind of learning curve. If that is at all possible with an anonymous commercial lab (I dont have direct contact with them as they are sent to the nearest city by my local mini-lab for processing) - unfortunately in the part of the world I live in there is not a lot of choice!

Will be setting up my own darkroom at home in the next few months hopefully.

Thanks for your help.
Antonio

boyooso · Mar 30, 2005

I hate to be difficult, but....

I would say most labs don't even process B & W film according to manufacturer specifications... Most film is souped in a sort of neutral, kind of flat, under developer.

What you need to do is work with your lab to find the best results.... I would start at normal develpment and go from there.

My recommendations to achieve a nice crisp neg is to expose TRIX 320 at 160 (iso) and OVER develop about 20%...

Always remember to test your film in your developer for your situations...

I would recommend trying: www.hiddenlightllc.com

They are a VERY custom lab in AZ.

boyooso

antielectrons · Mar 30, 2005

Hi,

Thanks for your suggestions - unfortunately I have no access to the lab myself as it is in another city. Also, I am using Tri-X 400. Thanks for the link. By the way I am in Spain!

Antonio

boyooso said:
I hate to be difficult, but....

I would say most labs don't even process B & W film according to manufacturer specifications... Most film is souped in a sort of neutral, kind of flat, under developer.

What you need to do is work with your lab to find the best results.... I would start at normal develpment and go from there.

My recommendations to achieve a nice crisp neg is to expose TRIX 320 at 160 (iso) and OVER develop about 20%...

Always remember to test your film in your developer for your situations...

I would recommend trying: www.hiddenlightllc.com

They are a VERY custom lab in AZ.

boyooso

dancqu · Mar 30, 2005

No dark room? I always find that hard to believe.
Dark Room, sounds like dark matter - dark energy.
For film a dark area, space, should do. Dan

antielectrons · Apr 5, 2005

Just a quick update to say that I got my negs back from the lab and they turned out wonderfully - exposure at 200 asa and normal dev. worked fine.

Thanks again for your help.
antonio

jim appleyard · Apr 5, 2005

Run test rolls using all the info above.

Ornello · Apr 5, 2005

antielectrons said:
Hello,

I have been reading many of the posts here and see that shootiing Tri-X at 200 ASA is an option preferred by quite a few of you.

I thought I would give this a go myself but do not have acess to a darkroom at the moment and will have to have my film developed comercially.

Question: Should I inform the lab that I shot at EI200 and ask them to adjust development accordingly or should I say nothing and let them process normally.

As far as I understand the process, by shooting at 200ASA I will be increasing shadow detail and the film has enough latitude not to burn out the highlights, however development affects contrast and therefore I should not need to change this unless I wish to alter the contrast in my negs - is this correct?

Any advice welcome.
Antonio

Some of us maintain that the ISO system speeds are inflated for all B&W films. Some of us like shadow detail. The ISO people apparently consider it optional.

Donald Miller · Apr 5, 2005

Ornello Pederzoli II said:
Some of us maintain that the ISO system speeds are inflated for all B&W films. Some of us like shadow detail. The ISO people apparently consider it optional.

While that may be true for some...I don't want to paint with a brush so broad as to say that all B&W films have inflated speeds. That is not true in my experience. There are a number of films including Ilford FP4, Efke PL100, and others that will maintain their rated speeds and show good shadow detail. It depends a great deal on how one meters, the developer formulation, and development procedure. When one get's past statements based on rumor and does their own testing then the truth can be determined.

antielectrons · Apr 6, 2005

Hi Jim,

What would be the benefit of this if I am already happy with Tri-X EI200 processed normally?

jim appleyard said:
Run test rolls using all the info above.

Tri-X at 200 - how to develop?

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