Tri-x 400 and Rodinal beginner question

Rik · Apr 2, 2009

I have shot some rolls of B&W 120 film, Tri-x 400 at 400. What will the difference be if I develop in Rodinal at 1+25 or 1+50, obviously with the associated time for each solution.
I intend to print the negs in a traditional dark room to a format of say maximum 11x18 inch.
thanks for your help.

Anscojohn · Apr 2, 2009

The 1-25 dilution will give you grain the size of boulders; the 1-50, not so large. Whatever, don't overdevelop for finest grain. I believe Bill Pierce used about 1-85, with sodium sulfite, on the early 1960s Trix.

You do not say what format--I would ASS u ME 6.x4.5 based on your enlargment size; thus grain will be less a hazard than with smaller negs or bigger enlargements.

George Collier · Apr 2, 2009

Hi Rik -
lots of threads on this forum about Trix and Rodinal - do a search on these words, you'll find lots of info. Pay particular attention to Don Cardwell's posts.
One thing re my experience. I like this combination, but find that Rodinal with 120 film requires vigorous agitation to avoid "surge" issues (exaggerated development along the edges of the film), at least for me.

RobertV · Apr 2, 2009

In Rodinal Tri-X 400 must be an E.I. around 200-250 to have details in the shadows which you would like to have in each negative.
Para-Amino Phenol (Rodinal type) will cost you about 2/3 F stop.

How higher the dilution in Rodinal the developer is going to give sharper negatives and more semi-compensating. Up from 1+50 Rodinal is working in the surface. By slow agitation you can minimize the grain in Rodinal. Rodinal needs slow agitation (due to the grain issue) so it's not suitable for rotary development so for inverse development only.
1+50 Rodinal Tri-X 400 (iso 200-250) 9:00min.

The minimum amount of Rodinal for each 135-36 or 120 roll film according Agfa is 10ml however the real minimum is 5-6ml pro film for always having reproducible results.

Therefore Rodinal is suitable for slow-and medium speed films (iso 25-200). Tri-X 400 will give a pronounced regular grain. This can be very nice if you like it. If you want finer grain try D76 or Xtol at box speed (iso 400) both also good combinations.

Best regards,

Robert

kodachrome64 · Apr 2, 2009

I use the Tri-X and Rodinal combo quite a bit with 6x7 negs. 35mm not so much. However, I've found it generally true that 1+25 will give you larger grain than 1+50 and I like to have at least 5mL of Rodinal per roll of film. Shoot at 200 or 250 as the above poster suggested and you will be OK. I love it also with Plus-X but I increase exposure by 1 stop (EI 64).

Ed Sukach · Apr 2, 2009

RobertV said:
Rodinal is working in the surface. By slow agitation you can minimize the grain in Rodinal. Rodinal needs slow agitation (due to the grain issue) so it's not suitable for rotary development so for inverse development only.

All these years -- I've been involved in, and supporting something "not suitable"?

I've developed a LOT of Agfa 400 in Rodinal (1:50!!!) in a JOBO CPP-2 processor - to a lesser amount, Tri X - and, poor deluded me ... I LIKE the results!!!

The way I see it - you have a choice; well defined (not necessarily "large") grain, sharp edges ... or less apparent grain with decided "mushiness"!

RobertV · Apr 3, 2009

If you like big regular grain, APX400 and rotary development is THE way to go.

The film format is of course an issue.
Here APX400/Rollei Retro 400 in Rodinal iso 250 in 35mm. Inverse development.

Rodinal 1+50 13:00 min. Regular but not disturbing fine grain. It's just a matter of taste, like the picture of the (Dutch) Coffee shop. We are offering Tabacco or Mariuhana. You can smoke them both..........

AgCl4ever · Apr 9, 2009

RobertV said:
If you like big regular grain, APX400 and rotary development is THE way to go.

The film format is of course an issue.
Here APX400/Rollei Retro 400 in Rodinal iso 250 in 35mm. Inverse development.

Rodinal 1+50 13:00 min. Regular but not disturbing fine grain. It's just a matter of taste, like the picture of the (Dutch) Coffee shop. We are offering Tabacco or Mariuhana. You can smoke them both..........

RobertV- Is your shot scanned from negative or print? My trial of APX400 and Rodinal was not highly successful for scanned negatives. Your shot is excellent.

RobertV · Apr 10, 2009

This is scanned from the 35mm negative (Epson V500, 2400 dpi).

Best regards,

Robert

Mark Antony · Apr 10, 2009

I like the Rodinal/Tri-x combo, has a kind of 1950's photo-journalism look a little more grain than say D76/ID11 but very satisfying for a certain 'look'

'Free Palestine' Tri-x in Rodinal 1:25 Leica M4-P 50mm Elmar 2,8

Mark

kulma · Jul 26, 2011

Hi,

it's my first post at this forum.

Do you have times for trix at 200ASA in rodinal 1:100?

Best regards,

kulma

Rick A · Jul 26, 2011

The MDC shows 20 minutes at 20c with continuous agitation first 15 seconds followed by 3 inversions every three minutes.

GraemeMitchell · Jul 27, 2011

Dilution has a large effect w/ rodinal. 1+50 will indeed show less grain than 1+25. Agitation also has a large effect on grain w/ rodinal. The difference between agitating each min or each 2 or 3 min is easily noticeable (seeing less grain in the latter).

W/ TX at 400: try 1+50, 12min, agitate w/ 2 soft inversions each 2 min.

68 degrees I believe, but my memory is thin on that point, b/c I know I used to have to use warmer temps sometimes...try a test roll regardless.

I've many many splendid negs using that. I shot it exclusively for 3 years actually.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 27, 2011

To my eye, the newer Tri-X has finer grain than APX 400, and I don't get very big grain with APX400 and Rodinal 1+25, agitating every 30s like Agfa suggests.

Attached picture is just a negative scan; the print wouldn't show the effects of grain aliasing, which increases the apparent grain.

It's also fun to shoot Tri-X at 200 and over-develop it. Get a 250W bulb for your condenser enlarger and print patiently. Makes wonderful prints with a very interesting and beautiful tone reproduction.

To me, Rodinal is all about texture, no matter what film you develop in it.

GraemeMitchell · Jul 27, 2011

Thomas, good example, shows the interesting thing is w/ the combo is how the midtones go on forever, the highlights are the mids and vice versa. Super for portraits b/c you can push the midtones (and skintones) all into these glowy highlights w/ overexposure (Ralph Gibson would be the extreme of this). But I also liked it for street b/c I could go from soft light to really brutal hard light, and never had to worry about loosing the highlights or shadows too much, everything always seemed to land in the middles someplace. WITH the right agitation. All has been discussed here before.

When I shot it for those few years, this little side project was one of the outputs: http://vimeo.com/8017172

mr.datsun · Jul 28, 2011

Anscojohn said:
The 1-25 dilution will give you grain the size of boulders

Anscojohn,
Sorry to differ, but this simply not the case. I have developed TRX in RO9 at 1+25 and the grain was remarkably fine and tight. Not much larger than plus-X, imo. Of course we're not talking Pan F grain but I was actually disappointed the fine-ness of the grain.

Rik, if you have any doubts just check the evidence on Flickr and filmdev.org

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 28, 2011

Has anybody else noticed that this thread is two years old?

Still doesn't make Rodinal a coarse grain developer....

36cm2 · Jul 28, 2011

I\'ve been missing a lot of people lately. Ansco John is one of them. Rodinal is excellent. Xtol is very different, but also excellent. The million posts on APUG regarding Tri-X, Rodinal and Xtol are similarly excellent. Ansco John commenting on any of these items would indeed be most excellent.

Leo

Tri-x 400 and Rodinal beginner question

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