Tri-x 400/220 Petition?

[jamusu]

Now that TXP 320 has been Kodachromed, what do you all think of the possibility of starting an online petition asking Kodak to manufacture Tri-x 400 in 220 format? My thinking is since they manufacture it 120 format, that their may be a chance, however small it may be, of persuading them to broaden it to 220 as well.

So what do you guys think? Is this a feasible concept, or wishful thinking?

Jamusu.

 

[Edwardv]

Doubt it will happen. I wish they would keep TXP 320 120 and 222, and drop Tri-X 400.

 

[mikebarger]

I'd like to see the petition just to see how many of the 38,000 are really interested in 220.

Mike

 

[Robert Hall]

I just went out and bought up all the txp I could in 220. I would sign that.

 

[Chazzy]

I would sign. But not everyone comes to APUG. There are probably a lot of photographers who don't even know about the TXP discontinuations yet.

 

[jamusu]

I would sign. But not everyone comes to APUG. There are probably a lot of photographers who don't even know about the TXP discontinuations yet.

Excellent point.

I was thinking of making it available to other photography websites as well. I thought it wise to begin here at APUG first to get the ball rolling so to speak.

Jamusu.

 

[Christopher Walrath]

I don't use it. I would support it but I have this idea for various things in the past and there is generally very little support for these ideas here. And I attribute that to realism. In hindsight I was naive. The bottom line for a company that, in 2003, announced they would be out of film business in seven years (2010) is that there is not as much of a piece of the photography pie to be made from film product as there used to be. All the more business for Ilford. STICK WITH US, SIMON!!!!!

 

[SuzanneR]

It's been done, but I can't find a link or the thread on APUG about it. It was a French petition that I signed.

 

[MattKing]

Ironically, I would purchase 220 if it was available in an emulsion I normally shoot, but didn't buy it in TXP-320 because I don't shoot that film.

I'd be willing to bet that 220 in TMY-2 would be an easier sell.

Matt

 

[Ira Rush]

Now that TXP 320 has been Kodachromed, what do you all think of the possibility of starting an online petition asking Kodak to manufacture Tri-x 400 in 220 format? My thinking is since they manufacture it 120 format, that their may be a chance, however small it may be, of persuading them to broaden it to 220 as well.

So what do you guys think? Is this a feasible concept, or wishful thinking?

Jamusu.

Count on me, where do I sign

It's been done.

The On-Line Petition?... where?

 

[SuzanneR]

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Ah... found a thread about it, but the link to the petition is gone. Ah well.

 

[jamusu]

This thread is moving quicker than I anticipated. Maybe I should have thought it through a bit more. Before we post or start the petition, what are some of the things that should be included? I think it should be well written and looked over extensively first.

Jamusu.

 

[Ira Rush]

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Ah... found a thread about it, but the link to the petition is gone. Ah well.

I remember that one, almost 99.99% positive I "signed" it, but this one is a very good idea.

I shoot a lot of 220 and I really want something, I really miss Plus -X 220, so if I can join the fight to save something in 220... sure why not.

(Hey T-Max 100 in 220 too... nice idea... but then again, as I said in a different topic... I still believe in the Easter Bunny, the Tooth fairy, and... )

 

[jamusu]

What would be a good title for the petition? I was thinking about something along the lines of: "Initiative TRI-X 400/220". Anyone have anything that sounds better?

Jamusu.

 

[Curt]

I don't think any petition or fight will bring any film back when Kodak has made up its mind to discontinue it. The reality is it's going to be gone and that's it.

The moving finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy piety nor wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a line,
Nor all thy tears wash out a word of it.

—The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam

 

[jamusu]

I don't think any petition or fight will bring any film back when Kodak has made up its mind to discontinue it. The reality is it's going to be gone and that's it.

The moving finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy piety nor wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a line,
Nor all thy tears wash out a word of it.

—The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam

Curt.

Just attempting to be proactive rather than reactive.

Jamusu.

 

[MikeSeb]

I don't think any petition or fight will bring any film back when Kodak has made up its mind to discontinue it. The reality is it's going to be gone and that's it.

Correct. The only petition that matters is the one where you "petition" the marketplace with your coin, by BUYING THE FILM IN SUFFICIENT QUANTITIES TO MAKE IT A PROFITABLE PRODUCT.

Why in the hell would Kodak reply to a petition drive by reprieving a discontinued film line? What's in it for Kodak? It goes like this:

1. Discontinue a poorly-selling film beloved of a few;
2. Endure online scourging and abuse, along with plenty of managerial advice and manufacturing pseudo-expertise;
3. Reprieve condemned emulsion. Bask in temporary PR glow resulting from thy mercy;
4. Enjoy transient bump in film sales as spooked regular users buy their year's worth of film in two days; and as curious non-users of the product buy a few rolls to see what all the fuss is about. Continue to lose money, albeit more slowly;
5. Watch as surge subsides and sales are now even worse than baseline, since everyone's stocked up; and since previous non-users get reacquainted with the reasons they never bought the stuff in the first place. Lose money more quickly;
6. Re-condemn the film, and be flailed like an oarsman in a slave galley in high-traffic online forums dedicated to film photography. Hear calls for your corporate demise, since you've refused to make that which people didn't (sufficiently) want until you no longer made it. Count money lost during reprieve. Explain to shareholders why any of this made sense.

I absolutely love these OMG-They've-Discontinued-My-Favorite-Film threads, which reliably pop up like daffodils every time some beloved emulsion is dispatched to Valhalla, to the dismay of both its users. Interesting windows into human nature, these threads are, and the insatiable need people have to feel like they individually count in the universe, or have some control.

BUY WHAT YOU LIKE, USE IT, and TELL A FRIEND. The marketplace will take care of the rest.

 

[mikebarger]

Jamusu

I do think it is a good idea. There are some who think 220 B&W has a good sized following and film companies are missing the boat not providing a B&W film in this format.

Then there are others that think 220 B&W is used by a handful of people.

There are almost 39,000 members here, should be able to get a fair idea of how many people are interested in buying 220 B&W. Think 10% will sign up?

Mike

 

[MikeSeb]

I do think it [petition] is a good idea. There are some who think 220 B&W has a good sized following and film companies are missing the boat not providing a B&W film in this format.

Would that be the "following" that was evidently "following" at such a distance that they were unable actually to BUY the product in consistent, viable amounts over the years that film companies HAVE offered 220 B&W film?

Whither this persistent idea that these decisions stem from a company's ignorance of the actual passionate love all those (non-buying) people out there have for their products; and that all we need to correct this woeful ignorance is a Petition? SALES NUMBERS ARE THE ONLY PETITION THAT COUNTS.

There are almost 39,000 members here, should be able to get a fair idea of how many people are interested in buying 220 B&W. Think 10% will sign up?

The film companies have gotten an even "fairer" idea of how many want 220 film by LOOKING AT THEIR SALES FIGURES. Think even 10% of that 10% who sign up will refloat this foundered barge by ACTUALLY BUYING STEADILY TODAY, NEXT MONTH, and NEXT YEAR?

Sigh. I must be insane for continuing to respond to these threads. Will someone please just bind and gag me with a roll of 220 film and throw me into a coating machine?

 

[jamusu]

Correct. The only petition that matters is the one where you "petition" the marketplace with your coin, by BUYING THE FILM IN SUFFICIENT QUANTITIES TO MAKE IT A PROFITABLE PRODUCT.

Why in the hell would Kodak reply to a petition drive by reprieving a discontinued film line? What's in it for Kodak? It goes like this:

1. Discontinue a poorly-selling film beloved of a few;
2. Endure online scourging and abuse, along with plenty of managerial advice and manufacturing pseudo-expertise;
3. Reprieve condemned emulsion. Bask in temporary PR glow resulting from thy mercy;
4. Enjoy transient bump in film sales as spooked regular users buy their year's worth of film in two days; and as curious non-users of the product buy a few rolls to see what all the fuss is about. Continue to lose money, albeit more slowly;
5. Watch as surge subsides and sales are now even worse than baseline, since everyone's stocked up; and since previous non-users get reacquainted with the reasons they never bought the stuff in the first place. Lose money more quickly;
6. Re-condemn the film, and be flailed like an oarsman in a slave galley in high-traffic online forums dedicated to film photography. Hear calls for your corporate demise, since you've refused to make that which people didn't (sufficiently) want until you no longer made it. Count money lost during reprieve. Explain to shareholders why any of this made sense.

I absolutely love these OMG-They've-Discontinued-My-Favorite-Film threads, which reliably pop up like daffodils every time some beloved emulsion is dispatched to Valhalla, to the dismay of both its users. Interesting windows into human nature, these threads are, and the insatiable need people have to feel like they individually count in the universe, or have some control.

BUY WHAT YOU LIKE, USE IT, and TELL A FRIEND. The marketplace will take care of the rest.

You must be speaking of your human nature or lack there of. I find it curious that many of your post's are laced with negativity and a misplaced view of elitism that you have enshrined upon yourself as though you are some type of "QUASI GOD of PHOTOGRAPHY". Tell me...is your soul truly as miserable as your writings suggest?

Jamusu.

 

[MikeSeb]

You must be speaking of your human nature or lack there of. I find it curious that many of your post's are laced with negativity and a misplaced view of elitism that you have placed upon yourself as though you are some type of "Quasi GOD of Photography". Tell me..is your soul truly as miserable as your writings would suggest?

Jamusu.

My soul is just fine, but thanks for asking. Not sure how elitism came into this. I think elitism and arrogance go hand in hand---such as expecting Kodak to keep losing money because I demand it. Not so humble, that.

I hold myself to be no God of anything, just a mortal man who tries to make sense of the nonsense that swirls about him, constantly, in a world seemingly devoted to the propagation of bullsh-t. If participating in forums like this one, and asking people to try to make rational sense rather than appeal to emotion and speculation is "negativity", then yes, I'm filled with negativity.

If you think I'm wrong, refute me; otherwise, move on. Have a nice day, regardless.

 

[elekm]

The only petition that works is people buying product. Kodak is making these decisions -- harsh as they might seem -- based on sales and certainly not sentiment.

That said, I lament the loss of Kodakachrome, HIE and Tech Pan and Panatomic-X and Verichrome Pan, 127 film and 126 Instamatic film.

 

[Ektagraphic]

I'll write a letter because that always seems to have more impact but if anyone is emailing Kodak can be spoken with at Kprotraditional@kodak.com or 1-800-242-2424 option 19.

 

[jamusu]

I'll write a letter because that always seems to have more impact but if anyone is emailing Kodak can be spoken with at Kprotraditional@kodak.com or 1-800-242-2424 option 19.

Good idea.

I will work out the fine details of the petition tonight and post on this thread to see what needs to be added or removed before a final copy is submitted. Hopefully we will get some signatures.

Jamusu.

 

[Ektagraphic]

PE might have something diffrent but I have sent Kodak mail to 343 State Street, Rochester NY 14650.