Traveling and photography - 4x5 or 6x6?

StoneNYC · Nov 18, 2013

jnanian said:
when i do work for clients, documenting the built environment for archives &c, it doesn't take me an hour or half hour to set up
the shot ... and that includes surveying the site for locations i am going to photograph, schlepping the tripod and camera &c to the site
from the car setting up the camera on the tripod, selecting a lens, focusing &c ...
i always laugh out loud when people say or suggest that large format photography has to be slow or it's no good
it is as slow or as fast as you want ....
i am referring to 4x5 - 8x10 ...
and last night i made so portraits with a 7x11 / 11x14 camera that didn't take an hour to compose either ...
not sure why people insist LF has to be painstakingly slow i worked for a portrait photographer ( 5x7 camera ) who had appointments every 15 minutes all day long
and i assisted highend annual report and architectural people back in the 1980s as well
if it took 1hour to make or compose or whatever each photograph, they would have been out of work in a heartbeat ...

heck if LF has to be so slow, then every other format should follow suit ... people use tripods for 35mm as well as MF for shutter speeds slower than the focal length
of the lens on the camera ... if such "care" is taken for LF it should follow for everything ...

I agree and I disagree, I think that yes you should take your time to make a good photograph, that's why I thought that 80 rolls was just way too much because I can't imagine being able to take the time to shoot that many rolls with actual thought, and rather being snap snap snap snap snap.

However there is a huge difference between setting up a large format camera on a tripod, and setting up a 35mm SLR camera on a tripod. The timeframe it takes to take the strap off your neck clip it to the tripod with a quick link look through the viewfinder focus on the subject set the aperture shutter speed etc., use that in camera meter and take the shot is relatively short amount of time perhaps one minute if you really wanted to make it a really long process. On the other hand, setting up a 4 x 5 camera taking it out of the case unfolding it, getting it on the tripod, adding a lens, adding the focusing cloth, focusing, framing, adjusting tilts /shifts etc, adding the cable release, taking the sheet out, exposing, notating what's on the sheet, and then packing it all up again... Takes about 30 minutes, (7-15 if you're super fast) but it certainly is more than 1 minute.

removed account4 · Nov 18, 2013

Sorry OP, i don't mean to pollute your thread with my ramblings

30 minutes?
stone, you mean you don't use a handheld meter when you use smaller formats ?!

my gosh man, snap out of it !

i agree NT it certainly take a little more time and care because
you have to open/close the aperture and put film in manually
but it doesn't take that long

that's one of the reasons i love graflex slrs so much, all the joy of LF
without the hassle of removing and installing film every exposure
and it shoots well "from the hip"

Pioneer · Nov 18, 2013

jnanian said:
Sorry OP, i don't mean to pollute your thread with my ramblings

30 minutes?
stone, you mean you don't use a handheld meter when you use smaller formats ?!

my gosh man, snap out of it !

i agree NT it certainly take a little more time and care because
you have to open/close the aperture and put film in manually
but it doesn't take that long

that's one of the reasons i love graflex slrs so much, all the joy of LF
without the hassle of removing and installing film every exposure
and it shoots well "from the hip"

Oh I do agree. My Graflex RB Auto was one of my best buys. Once you start to get the hang of setting shutter curtain speed and slit width it is great. And it is real tough to argue with 4x5 negs.

But, as much as I enjoy my Graflex, I am not sure I would want to pack it on vacation with the family.

Prest_400 · Nov 18, 2013

I worked only on smaller formats and digital. I got no experience with Medium format, even though I've been considering how a trip would be with it... My word is on choosing Medium Format for its convenience.
I've seen a thread on LFF of a guy that carried 4x5, MF, 35mm and digital on a trip to Bali. I couldn't manage! Depends though on the way you travel.

Bruce Osgood said:
This is a great question and I'm also pondering the solutions.

I think the question only revolves around convenience. This seems to be the heart of the matter. When you're out and about by yourself and there is no schedule to meet there is nothing more convenient than a large format camera and all the trimmings. When you're doing snap-shots there is nothing like a quick and dirty digital. But when really need a film fix and you're expected somewhere in a couple of hours or your wife/family/weather say's you better get going, then I'm thinking Fuji GW690W II.

You mention a GW690 which is an option I've been seing for Medium format. Older models go for good prices and it's a quite modern camera. I see the 8 shot both a blessing and a curse. At home it's the former, as 35mm's 36 is endless but on the move I tend to be more trigger happy.
Reports say it's a huge and bulky thing but quite similar to a 35mm RF except for this. An optimum if I had $ would be a GF670.
My next big trip would be to SE Asia (hopping between countries, so logistics are important) and I'd love to take MF. But no more, no less.

Mark_S · Nov 18, 2013

I also shoot MF and LF, although in my case the minimal LF setup is significantly bigger/heavier than an average MF setup.

If I am travelling for photography, I usually take both setups - but when travelling for other reasons (business or family), I tend to bring just the MF kit - I will usually bring the camera with prism finder (no need for an extra meter), and a total of two lenses - either the 80 and 50, or 80 and 150 depending on where I am going.

Another difference for me: 99% of what I shoot in LF is black and white, while 80% of what I shoot in MF is colour - I tend to think differently with one camera vs the other.

Mark

RalphLambrecht · Nov 18, 2013

the hassy works but is a bit bulky.a mirrorless 6x6 such as the Mamiya 6 is a great travel option.it's light,handy and has great optics. and it uses common 120 film!

StoneNYC · Nov 18, 2013

RalphLambrecht said:
the hassy works but is a bit bulky.a mirrorless 6x6 such as the Mamiya 6 is a great travel option.it's light,handy and has great optics. and it uses common 120 film!

Yes I agree as I said earlier with the Mamiya 7 either one would be good, light, accurate, great lenses.

But if you're not wanting to buy a new system, go with the MF for travel unless as I said you have whole days to devote to LF.

jspillane · Nov 18, 2013

StoneNYC said:
But if you're not wanting to buy a new system, go with the MF for travel unless as I said you have whole days to devote to LF.

Yes, I am doing my best to avoid buying any more systems at the time being... I'd rather build a good, complete set of one MF system and one LF system. Once I have more cash I am planning upgrade from the Busch to a Nagaoka/Anba/Tachihara and to buy a nice set of three or so lenses. I am quite happy with the three lens set on the Hasselblad, I don't lust for any others. I've spent less on my three lens Hasselblad set then it would cost me to get a good condition Mamiya 7 and one lens (remarkable, really, how cheap you can obtain deluxe MF SLR equipment for).

I will have full (8+ hour) days to devote to photography, but it certainly won't be every day of the trip. I have to say, I partially convinced myself to buy into Hasselblad over Mamiya or Pentax because I thought it would be a better system to take on trips, so I might feel a twinge of guilt if I didn't bring it. After a lot of thought, I think I'll axe the 250mm if I bring it, even though I *know* I will want it a few times. That being said, my girlfriend has lodged a vote for Pressman, and I would hate to disappoint her...

I think I will test pack for each set and see how each feels. Or maybe processing my most recent shots with each tonight will bring some light onto the matter.

Sirius Glass · Nov 18, 2013

I do my serious work with Hasselbalds. The rest are for just playing around.

DWThomas · Nov 18, 2013

It's fun to watch these threads -- a seemingly simple question can produce a different answer from just about every respondent. My limited experience with traveling around Europe a bit has taught me a couple of things. One is that if I'm traveling with family members, it's a waste to bring much gear. There's just too many distractions keeping track of what's going on. The second is that traveling on public transit, the less 'stuff' to carry, the better.

If I were headed over there again with family members, I would probably take my Perkeo II with a small pile of B&W film, and the fairly recent high end point&shoot of -- uh -- 'alternate technology' (Canon G15) that I recently acquired (as opposed to a previous dSLR). If the travel effort was a bit less complicated, I might replace the Perkeo with my Yashica 124G. I'm sure I would occasionally wish I had my Bronica SQ-A, but that's quite a handful, especially if one wanted an extra lens or two, or extra back, or finder. No matter what one has at hand, there is always some circumstance that stretches its resources a little.

Methinks it's best to go with a limited selection of familiar gear that can be packed compactly and carried easily, and learn to live with it.

(But that's just me.)

StoneNYC · Nov 18, 2013

jspillane said:
Hi all,

I am taking a lengthy trip this December/January, leaving the confines of New York for a few weeks in Sweden, Spain and France. While I'll be quite busy with other projects, I am also planning to take a large quantity of photographs during this trip. I'm a bit torn between two camera options, and wanted to get opinions from the masses...

Option A:
Busch Pressman Model 'D'
Wollensak-Raptar 135mm f4.7
6-8 film holders
6x7 back
75 sheets of B&W 4x5 sheet film
10 or so rolls of color 120

Option B:
Hasselblad 500c
60mm CB / 120 S-Planar / 250 CT*
waist level finder, maybe a chimney finder
80-100 rolls of 120, mixture of B&W and color (probably 70% B&W)

Weight/space wise, Option A will be considerably less. I would be likely to bring the same tripod/head with either set. Shooting all 120 will result in a lot more images, as well as the ability to do more handheld shots, but it will also end up exhausting a lot more of my film budget. While color large format work is just out of my budget right now, the 6x7 back opens up the option if necessary. I, sadly, am not able to optically enlarge in my current living situation, so MF is all scanned and archived for future printing. I contact print my 4x5 work.

Maybe I tipped my preference by posting this in the LF forum rather than the MF, but I oscillate back and forth. I do find the idea of documenting Sweden with a Hasselblad novel (I got to shoot Berlin with a Rolleiflex last year and greatly enjoyed it...) but certainly not essential. I could bring the Rolleiflex instead, obviously cutting my weight back a lot, but it is also much more limited and I think I will be doing a lot of landscapes and architecture. The limitation of a single lens bothers me less with 4x5 (and I suppose I could set my mind to getting a telephoto lens to bring as well, but I don't currently own one).

Thanks for any advice and opinions in advance!

Oh If the girlfriend says bring the large-format, then definitely do that, take advantage of it when you can because I know at least from my own personal experience that it's not often they are okay with you bringing the gear that takes longer to work with

PKM-25 · Nov 19, 2013

Overseas travel and not a photo trip?....without question the Hasselblad and no more than two lenses. I do this all the time with a 501CM, 60 & 100 CF and get great results, decent sized kit, fantastic photographs. All that matters in photography is the impact of the photos you got, so use gear that stays out of the way.

If it were me I would bring either the two lens Hassy kit or my dinky bag with an M3 / 50 1.4 lux and my Xpan with three lenses, that kit rocks for overseas.....

Don't get me wrong, I love 4x5, just souped 130 sheets in a row as part of a marathon film souping session. But it is a LOT more to deal with overseas, even John Sexton leaves his Technika stateside preferring the Hasselblad for overseas work.

Sal Santamaura · Nov 19, 2013

PKM-25 said:
...even John Sexton leaves his Technika stateside preferring the Hasselblad for overseas work.

Did John replace his SL-66 kit with a Hasselblad at some point?

DREW WILEY · Nov 19, 2013

Everything is determined by Murphy's law. If I travel with MF, I'll wish I had the 4x5 instead, and visa versa. No big deal. One can only print
so many shots anyway. But in general, I prefer the biggest format that is practical to carry. I won't risk my 8x10 or best lenses of a flight
destination, however, even when its all in the carry-on.

mike c · Nov 19, 2013

Sal Santamaura said:
Did John replace his SL-66 kit with a Hasselblad at some point?

Took one of his printing classes last year, he mentioned his and hers Hasselblad's when sight seeing and not any sl66.

Mike

RalphLambrecht · Nov 19, 2013

I understood that he was influenced by AAto get into Hasselblad.

jspillane · Nov 21, 2013

Alright. I've debated and agonized, and done some shooting, and I think I've got a new plan.

Option D:

Busch Pressman
100-125 sheets of 4x5 (various emulsions)
Canonet QL17 GIII
20-30 rolls of 35mm (50/50 B&W and color)

It's as light as bringing the Hasselblad 60mm/120mm, but I think more versatile, in that the Canonet can fit in my pocket, and i can get nice, massive negatives from the Pressman to contact print when I return.
I'm sure i'll be sad not to have the Hasselblad, but it will be waiting for me when I get back... I mostly like to use it on a tripod with flashes and models, which isn't likely to be part of the equation on this trip. Also, if by some stroke of bad luck the Busch and Canonet are both stolen/destroyed/lost, combined they cost me less than the Zeiss 60mm CB alone.

Thanks for all the feedback... If I get good results I will be sure to share them!

munz6869 · Nov 21, 2013

Sounds splendid - I take a Wista 5x4 & a Fuji 6x8 rangefinder on travels now, and never regret it (well perhaps the 5x4 at the very top of a steep climb sometimes)... but the negs when you get home (and revisiting all the memories contained within), well that's special.

Marc!

jeffreyg · Nov 22, 2013

I am currently in the Costa Brava of Spain having traveled also in France (Arles and Aix en Provence) as well as along the coast. It has been very windy with winds up to perhaps 50mph so if they are typical for the time of your trip the 4x5 could be tricky. We also had heavy rain but has been partly cloudy with some sunny days as well. I have been in Normandy and Brittany in late November and early December and it was cold and rainy.

I have with me two Hasselblad bodies, 150mm, 50mm and 2x plus three filters and a spot meter. I have a small but sturdy Gitzo carbon fiber tripod with a ball head. I took 24 rolls of Delta 400 and don,t think I will use all. Roads are narrow and there is rarely a place to pull off so shooting has been from deliberate locations and we are also sight seeing, etc. The pack weighs about 25lbs so in a city I carry a daypack with one body and the two lenses.

We are heading to Barcelona in a couple of hours so the tripod has been put to bed.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

k_jupiter · Nov 22, 2013

jspillane said:
Alright. I've debated and agonized, and done some shooting, and I think I've got a new plan.

Option D:

Busch Pressman
100-125 sheets of 4x5 (various emulsions)
Canonet QL17 GIII
20-30 rolls of 35mm (50/50 B&W and color)

It's as light as bringing the Hasselblad 60mm/120mm, but I think more versatile, in that the Canonet can fit in my pocket, and i can get nice, massive negatives from the Pressman to contact print when I return.

Thanks for all the feedback... If I get good results I will be sure to share them!

Get bigger pockets and carry the Hassy?

TomWB · Nov 23, 2013

DWThomas said:
If I were headed over there again with family members, I would probably take my Perkeo II with a small pile of B&W film, and the fairly recent high end point&shoot of -- uh -- 'alternate technology' (Canon G15) that I recently acquired (as opposed to a previous dSLR). If the travel effort was a bit less complicated, I might replace the Perkeo with my Yashica 124G. I'm sure I would occasionally wish I had my Bronica SQ-A, but that's quite a handful, especially if one wanted an extra lens or two, or extra back, or finder. No matter what one has at hand, there is always some circumstance that stretches its resources a little.

Methinks it's best to go with a limited selection of familiar gear that can be packed compactly and carried easily, and learn to live with it.

+1

I shoot "all that" - film in 4x5, 120, 35mm, dslrs and point and shoots, but I don't usually take anything other than my Canon g12 with a small bogen tripod with Gitzo's smallest ballhead. I save the other stuff for the trunk of my car or hiking locally. I'm always with other members of the family, and don't want to hold them back while I set up 4x5 for instance. If I was traveling solo and staying for an extended time it might be different. It's freeing to walk through airports and have everything on me in the vest I'm wearing, and nothing in my checked luggage except for clothing and toothpaste, all easily replaced.

fralexis · Dec 3, 2013

I took a 4x5 Toyo to Russia a couple of years ago. It was great having it, but I won't do that again unless I have a bevy of carriers. Last year I followed the advice of those here and bought a Mamiya 7 to take. It is super light weight and takes magnificent photos. It is a little expensive but worth ever penny. Now I am never hindered by weight or fussy set up.

BradS · Dec 4, 2013

When I travel for work or for a family vacation (ie, any trip that is not explicitly dedicated to photography), I take either the 4x5 Crown Graphic with standard 135mm lens and a handful of film holders, or an old 6x9 folder. That's it!

EDIT: my avatar is a photo of me with a Crown Graphic on the Galapagos Islands....yes, I photographed the Galapagos with only a 4x5 Crown Graphic, ten film holders, a changing bag and LOTS of film!

infundibulum · Dec 6, 2013

I'd opt to use the Hasselblad with 60mm lens, lighter, faster, and superb resolution.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 6, 2013

if weight is a big concern,consider Mamiya 6 with 50 and 75mm lenses,otherwise a Hasselblad 500 will work just fineif you have a schlepper with you.

Traveling and photography - 4x5 or 6x6?

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