Travel to Cuba

JBrunner · Feb 19, 2011

onnect17 said:
Steve,
The US government could not care less if you want to visit the island as long as you do not spend more than $100 a day.
And this is for everybody entertaining the idea of a trip to Cuba. If you think you know anything about Cuba just spending a week in La Habana, you are misguided. It's like a UK citizen visiting Bronx, NY and picturing the rest of US like it.
I know of two cases (few years back). US citizens spending some time in jail and paying five figures fines for being "smart" ignoring treasury department regulations, one of them from California and of course, both wealthy guys. I doubt they will go after a broke student.

Your information might be out of date. Under Bush II and the ironically patriotic rush to to turn the US into the Soviet Empire, some things got pushed up pretty hard. My understandings are mostly from the Yachtie world, where folks used to visit regularly, but now can have their boats confiscated for- and get this- "thinking about going".

For those interested, here is the specific info for Americans: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1097.html

A translation: http://wikitravel.org/en/Americans_in_Cuba

Here's what went down under the shrub as Yachties saw it: http://www.cubacruising.net/html/texas_bluff.html

I know the Obama administration has eased restrictions for money and visiting for relatives, but IDK if anything else has been eased from the baby Bush squeeze.

Steve Smith · Feb 19, 2011

JBrunner said:
but now can have their boats confiscated for- and get this- "thinking about going".

So the US government now has mind reading satellites in orbit?!!!

Steve.

TimVermont · Feb 19, 2011

Steve Smith said:
So the US government now has mind reading satellites in orbit?!!!

Steve.

It's a cooperative intelligence effort called "Naughty or Nice?" based on techniques developed in a workshop at the North Pole.

Marcus S · Feb 19, 2011

I was under the understanding that America is the land of 'the free'. Looks like I was mistaken.

Our late prime minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau visited Cuba several times.

JBrunner · Feb 19, 2011

Marcus S said:
I was under the understanding that America is the land of 'the free'. Looks like I was mistaken.

Our late prime minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau visited Cuba several times.

Yep, a couple hundred militantly religious whackadoo's and some profit motive have accomplished what the combined armed forces of Germany, Japan, and the Soviet Union could not. Anyway, that's a rant more suited to the soapbox. Apparently you can go if you jump through a bunch of bureaucratic hoops to be a "researcher" or a "humanitarian". Funny, that kind of thing sounds more like the paperwork BS you'd expect from a totalitarian communist regime, not the "leader of the free world." Oops there I go again. I may have to send my own thread to the soapbox.

JBrunner · Feb 19, 2011

Steve Smith said:
So the US government now has mind reading satellites in orbit?!!!

Steve.

"Persons on private vessels may not get underway from a berth, pier, mooring or anchorage in the security zone, or depart the security zone, with the intent to enter Cuban territorial waters..."

That's the part of the CG release that covers it. Notice that it doesn't say enter, it says "intent" to enter. I call that "language for license".

JBrunner · Feb 19, 2011

Hmmm, turns out to be a timely subject:

http://manhattan.ny1.com/content/ny...-order-allows-for--purposeful--visits-to-cuba

Ultimately, if we were really interested in changing Cuba, being in such close proximity, we'd declare it open for business, and obliterate it with American style consumerism.

Steve Smith · Feb 19, 2011

I don't get it. What threat is Cuba to the USA? What possible reason is there for restricting travel. And what right does the US government have in telling its citizens where they can travel to?

Steve.

Dan Henderson · Feb 19, 2011

I consider myself a patriotic American. But I cannot help laugh at how Cuba has been able to stick it's finger in Uncle Sam's eye so many times over the years. Bay of Pigs invasion: Castro 1, USA 0. If conspiracy theories are to be believed, we failed to assassinate Castro but he got Kennedy. Emptying his jails during the Mariel Boat Lift. How many US Presidents has Fidel outlived? And the best of all: offering to send his medical people to New Orleans after Katrina.

onnect17 · Feb 19, 2011

JBrunner said:
Your information might be out of date. Under Bush II and the ironically patriotic rush to to turn the US into the Soviet Empire, some things got pushed up pretty hard. My understandings are mostly from the Yachtie world, where folks used to visit regularly, but now can have their boats confiscated for- and get this- "thinking about going".

For those interested, here is the specific info for Americans: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1097.html

A translation: http://wikitravel.org/en/Americans_in_Cuba

Here's what went down under the shrub as Yachties saw it: http://www.cubacruising.net/html/texas_bluff.html

I know the Obama administration has eased restrictions for money and visiting for relatives, but IDK if anything else has been eased from the baby Bush squeeze.

In the past decade, most of the US citizens in trouble for traveling to Cuba are linked to illegal traffic (goods or humans) in the "estrecho" but the two cases I mentioned are back in the 80's, under Reagan.
Regarding Steve Anchel's trip, the requirements in his website are clear, he will apply for your license if needed so should not be a problem. He's doing it by the book.
Cuba is not exception regarding foreign policy by US administrations regarding left dictatorships. If the Dems are in the Whitehouse they want to "improve the relations". If the Reps are in control, then the opposite. That's the story for the past 50 years.
For those really interested in learning, American Experience series have an episode "Fidel Castro". The documentary is more about US and the Cuban revolution. Very good. Probably available in Netflix.
Forgive if my tone sounds too certain. I was born and spent the first 27 years of my life in Cuba. I have some idea.

onnect17 · Feb 19, 2011

Steve Smith said:
I don't get it. What threat is Cuba to the USA? What possible reason is there for restricting travel. And what right does the US government have in telling its citizens where they can travel to?

Steve.

The Cuban government (still same brothers) is the thread. Remember, the only country to ever had "hot" nuclear weapons pointing to US citizens (yes, not even the CCCP).
Also, I agree it's hard for anybody to understand why a government should restrict where you can go. Probably is the same explanation for the Identity Cards in UK. Try telling Americans they need an identity card to be in the streets. Good luck with that.

jeroldharter · Feb 19, 2011

Steve Smith said:
I don't get it. What threat is Cuba to the USA? What possible reason is there for restricting travel. And what right does the US government have in telling its citizens where they can travel to?

Steve.

Generally speaking, dictatorships based on a political philosophy that enslaves its people would fall under the category of "threat." Also, countries with a history of collaborating with ones enemies with the possibility of nuclear war is considered a "threat."

I would prefer that our government not restrict our travel. But we are such an entitled bunch now that we expect a government helicopter to evacuate us from any problem and a government health plan to treat our traveler's diarrhea that I am willing to accept the restriction.

Haven't heard anyone comment on Cuba's "travel restrictions" for its citizens. Last I heard, Cuba was cracking down on styrofoam that might be used for rafts.

onnect17 · Feb 19, 2011

Jerold,
As a doctor you pain will be bigger. Forgive me.
Check this --> http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=54232

I wonder what could happen if Steve Anchel request to visit this hospital.

JBrunner · Feb 19, 2011

onnect17 said:
The Cuban government (still same brothers) is the thread. Remember, the only country to ever had "hot" nuclear weapons pointing to US citizens (yes, not even the CCCP).
Also, I agree it's hard for anybody to understand why a government should restrict where you can go. Probably is the same explanation for the Identity Cards in UK. Try telling Americans they need an identity card to be in the streets. Good luck with that.

I'm fairly certain that Russia and China have ICBM's ready to fly in our direction within moments. "hot" is a semantic. I don't doubt your experience or insight though. The Repub/Dem thing makes sense.

JBrunner · Feb 19, 2011

jeroldharter said:
Generally speaking, dictatorships based on a political philosophy that enslaves its people would fall under the category of "threat." Also, countries with a history of collaborating with ones enemies with the possibility of nuclear war is considered a "threat."

I would prefer that our government not restrict our travel. But we are such an entitled bunch now that we expect a government helicopter to evacuate us from any problem and a government health plan to treat our traveler's diarrhea that I am willing to accept the restriction.

Haven't heard anyone comment on Cuba's "travel restrictions" for its citizens. Last I heard, Cuba was cracking down on styrofoam that might be used for rafts.

Don't mix up my irritation at having my rights restricted as some kind of endorsement of the Cuban political system. As I pointed out I think it is ironic that in respect to visiting Cuba the American government acts like a totalitarian regime to it's citizenry. Also, I don't think liability is an overwhelming reason. There are a lot of way more off the map places I can visit and get into trouble without having to blow the treasury department to get permission. What I don't understand is the mentality that following a policy that has clearly not worked is some kind of sound reasoning. Bombing Cuba with blue jeans and resort deals, that will work. Actually I see it as inevitable.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Feb 19, 2011

If Cuba is able to be a treat to USA for past 50 years and if some Americans are thinking that they will pay for this , I think this is tragicomic. I think USA is willing to eat small easy to digest pies . They made a huge propaganda that telling people IRAQ have a big army , tank fleets , 2 millions soldiers and able to hit USA with chemical rockets and have nuclear bomb.
In 2 hours , IRAQ army crashed. Yes it is easy to attack propaganda poor nations. If you have enough army and if Russia have weapons , chemicals rockets , army , tanks againts to USA , try to attack to Russia and see whats happening.

onnect17 · Feb 19, 2011

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
If Cuba is able to be a treat to USA for past 50 years and if some Americans are thinking that they will pay for this , I think this is tragicomic. I think USA is willing to eat small easy to digest pies . They made a huge propaganda that telling people IRAQ have a big army , tank fleets , 2 millions soldiers and able to hit USA with chemical rockets and have nuclear bomb.
In 2 hours , IRAQ army crashed. Yes it is easy to attack propaganda poor nations. If you have enough army and if Russia have weapons , chemicals rockets , army , tanks againts to USA , try to attack to Russia and see whats happening.

You should know the answer as a country member of NATO. Turkey and the bases will be attacked by the Russians for sure. The part I can't understand is why the US is selling arms to Turkey, or Turkey being a member of NATO or even the USA helping Turkey to be part of the EU. After all we have nothing in common.

JBrunner · Feb 19, 2011

onnect17 said:
You should know the answer as a country member of NATO. Turkey and the bases will be attacked by the Russians for sure. The part I can't understand is why the US is selling arms to Turkey, or Turkey being a member of NATO or even the USA helping Turkey to be part of the EU. After all we have nothing in common.

Turkey joined NATO to mitigate pressure upon it from the USSR. (That's the cliff note, of course.)

jeroldharter · Feb 19, 2011

onnect17 said:
Jerold,
As a doctor you pain will be bigger. Forgive me.
Check this --> http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=54232
...

The story is just another example of the successes of communism.

The same government that caused the problem in the first place is proposing that the solution is more of itself. That is starting to sound like our country.

onnect17 · Feb 19, 2011

JBrunner said:
I'm fairly certain that Russia and China have ICBM's ready to fly in our direction within moments. "hot" is a semantic. I don't doubt your experience or insight though. The Repub/Dem thing makes sense.

An issue of Military History Magazine in last year has a very interesting article (with excellent photos too) with new info about the October Crisis. One of the surprises was the existence (unknown to the US) of tactical warheads pointing directly to Guantanamo. Also I learned one of the groups was located 20 miles from where I grow up.

Dan Henderson · Feb 20, 2011

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
If Cuba is able to be a treat to USA for past 50 years and if some Americans are thinking that they will pay for this , I think this is tragicomic. I think USA is willing to eat small easy to digest pies . They made a huge propaganda that telling people IRAQ have a big army , tank fleets , 2 millions soldiers and able to hit USA with chemical rockets and have nuclear bomb.
In 2 hours , IRAQ army crashed. Yes it is easy to attack propaganda poor nations. If you have enough army and if Russia have weapons , chemicals rockets , army , tanks againts to USA , try to attack to Russia and see whats happening.

Iraq did have a big army and tank fleets. We crushed them so quickly because our soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines are better trained and equipped. George Bush lied to us about Iraq's chemical weapons program, but I don't recall him telling us that Iraq's rockets could hit us nor that he had a nuclear - or as he pronounced it, nu-cu-lar- bomb.

Marcus S · Feb 20, 2011

Steve Smith said:
I don't get it. What threat is Cuba to the USA? What possible reason is there for restricting travel. And what right does the US government have in telling its citizens where they can travel to?

Steve.

Cuban cigars are a hot commodity for the American tourist visiting Canada.
Apparently they are illegal in the US.

Cuba has become a popular vacation destination for Canadians. Many visit a second time as they enjoyed the hospitality of the country very much.

David Henderson · Feb 21, 2011

Ultimately, if we were really interested in changing Cuba, being in such close proximity, we'd declare it open for business, and obliterate it with American style consumerism

Thats exactly right and sadly Cuba would become another Caymans/Bahamas/Turks and Caicos in a couple of decades. Right now Cuba is different; as a photographer it has a different flavour from anywhere else in the world. The moment there is a rapprochement with the USA that difference will erode fast. The first time I see a Dunkin' Donuts along the Malecon, the place will be wrecked for me. I've met a number of American tourists in Cuba having displayed the ingenuity required to get there indirectly. It is already past its best for the photographer, though still worth a visit. Of the 12 best photographs I took on my first visit in 2001 only three or four remained substantially unchamged when I next returned in 2005.

jeroldharter · Feb 21, 2011

David Henderson said:
...
Thats exactly right and sadly Cuba would become another Caymans/Bahamas/Turks and Caicos in a couple of decades. Right now Cuba is different; as a photographer it has a different flavour from anywhere else in the world. ...

I don't think that dictatorship, oppression, and abject poverty should be preserved elsewhere so that we might have a good travel destination for photography.

Vaughn · Feb 21, 2011

onnect17 said:
The Cuban government (still same brothers) is the thread. Remember, the only country to ever had "hot" nuclear weapons pointing to US citizens (yes, not even the CCCP)...

Actually Cuba never had nuclear weapons. Those in Cuba were owned, controlled and operated by the Soviet Union. I doubt very much that any Cuban leader/official or Cuban military officer could have ordered a missle launch. And the missles were there as a direct response to the USA installing nuclear weapons along the borders of the Soviet Union in Turkey.

I blame Florida (a safe target) for the travel ban to Cuba -- the Cuban business community there has a very strong voice. The embargo is something they very much support and demand.

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