Transition to film photography

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Irusia

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Hello!
For years, I have been shooting on a simple digital point and shoot camera. Now I think it's time to get a better camera, but I need advice from more experienced photographers.

I'm interested in doing film photography.
Buying only a film camera is scary for me, cause I never did film photography before. I would like to have a smother transition. So I thought about practising photography with something like G9X + my mother's film point and shoot, and after I get comfortable with both of these, I want to get a film SLR.

1. Do you think this is a good plan?
2. What film cameras can you recommend?
3. What is the difference between an SLR and a rangefinder?
4. What old film cameras are compatible with modern lenses? I think it's important to have a good selection of lenses?
5. Do you think G9X is good to buy or should I choose sth else? It occurs to me that for this purpose having an optical viewfinder is nice, but I am on a budget.
 

baachitraka

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my mother's film point and shoot,
Its a good idea to start. You may learn about developing film at home (having developing kit + chemicals) and slowly move towards acquiring a SLR or range finder.

4. What old film cameras are compatible with modern lenses? I think it's important to have a good selection of lenses?
Nikkor and EF lenses are what I remember that can be used in film and as well as digital cameras.
 

JWMster

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There are plenty here who've taught photography and can give better advice based on that experience than I, but for my part, welcome to the idea that is film photography. You'll find plenty of fun in the analog world. Before buying a thing, if possible, look through your photos to see what you like to make images of and how close or far away you like to be from your subjects. This will change the more time you spend in photography...perhaps., but it's a good place to see what gear you'd need just to be able to do what you have already been doing.... perhaps more consciously. "Best" way to budget is to buy gear very, very slowly. One at a time if you can. There's a lot of gear besides cameras and lenses that can and often does go into film photography for developing, enlarging, and scanning. Be sparse. Try to buy as if you'll own the next piece of gear the rest of your life. I've done the opposite of this advice so many times its not funny... so I'm speaking from my mistakes. Mistakes are costly when you own up to them; when you sell off something as you take big hits there. We call that tuition. To quote the Bass family patriarch: "Tuition's a lot more expensive after school, huh?" Yep.

FWIW, these days after shooting quite a variety of stuff, I've come around to shooting 35mm film through Nikon cameras and AF lenses (the "D" lenses on F-mount). This is fairly economical as far as it goes, and the results are as good as your careful work and experience can make them. I shoot larger formats, too (MF and LF 4X5), but 35mm is a good do-all, go anywhere format.

Have fun... 'cause if you ain't, why bother?
 

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Nikon system will allow to transition from digital to film, work both with same lenses. Same for Canon EOS line and EF mounted lenses. I'm no 100% sure about Sony system lens mount compatibility with film cameras then made by Minolta. So this approach would give you at least lenses to work with in each environment without spending any extra money. Going with any digital system that doe snot provide a film body to go with same lenses is obviously additional money spent on the film gear side, so in that sense any "pure" digital brands (Panasonic etc) means just that.

Since you've not done film at all, it is a different experience and while there is nothing scary about it, it requires getting "down & dirty" with chemicals, light sensitive materials, assuming you want to do all processing yourself. Sending film out is an option and for starters probably a viable/better option so you can focus on shooting some rolls of film without also working with it at the processing stage.

Film is not digital, and is there always a small infinite number of frames on each roll of film, it takes somewhat different mind set. But it is a rewarding, at least it can be.
 

Nitroplait

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Why not jump in? A camera like Nikon F90x and any AFD Lens will allow you to start out with Program mod and autofocus, and turn off automation gradually when you feel comfortable. F90x is a great professional grade camera which is a bargain these days and AF-D kit lenses cost next to nothing.
Consider looking at https://kamerastore.com. They test their stuff and have reasonable worldwide shipping. (no relation just had good experiences with them).
 

Paul Howell

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Canon EF is pretty stright forward, all full frame EF will work on auto focus film bodies. Nikon and Pentax use the same mount but the electronics have evolved and not all newer lens are compatible with film cameras. Sony is even more of a mess. Sony A mount bodies, new A99 and A77II are not true SLRS they use translucent mirrors that sends a portion of the light to a sensor which is used by an Eye Level Electronic Viewfinder. These A bodies work with all Minolta A mount lens, but only a few Konica Minolta film bodies will work with newest Konica Minolta and Sony A mount lenses. Sony E mount is a different mount, requires a adapter to use A mount lens.

I use Minolta and Sony, A bodies, but I would give Canon EF bodies serious consideration.
 

BrianShaw

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Before you start buying, work the budget aspect first! Know your budget and think about how that impacts your desires and needs. Think about how to transition into your desired end-state given that budget. If you do this, you won’t “paint yourself in a corner” or “get in over your head”.
 

runswithsizzers

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If you already have access to a film camera, start with that one. If your mother's film camera has the ability for manual exposure, you can start learning about how film exposure works (keep notes).

If the camera has auto-exposure, only, you can still learn the following:
Do I prefer b&w, color negative, or slide film?
Who is going to develop this film?
Do I want prints from negatives, or do I want to work with digital copies of the film?​

In some ways "practicing" with camera A is of limited value for learning how to operate camera B - so if you want to learn how to shoot a SLR, it would be best to practice with a SLR.

But in other ways, using any film camera will teach you something about film photography. Even shooting a digital camera can teach something about exposure *IF* you set the camera to manual exposure. Having the instant feedback on the LED screen means faster learning compared to waiting a week to see your results on film.

But be aware that ISO is often a secondary consideration when shooting digital - you select the shutter speed and aperture, but the camera may select the ISO. Film shooters must select the ISO first (when you buy the film), and stick with the same ISO for the remainder of the roll. Hopefully, your digital camera will let you set a fixed ISO when shooting manual, and if not, it should at least show you what ISO it is using. You want to start to get an understanding of what range of shutter speeds are available for low ISOs (about 100) compared to high ISOs (800-1200), and that experience will help you when you are deciding what films to try.
 
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dmtnkl

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I think it is equally important to consider what kind of film you will be using. Some might disagree, but i think you should go for positive color slide film as it is a far better "teacher". Shoot, develop and then just look at it with a magnifier. It is certainly less forgiving and exposure errors as small as 1/3 of a stop can easily be observed. A camera with a reliable light meter will make the exposure process a lot easier. It can also be easier to scan slide film if you ever want to do it yourself, as you will not have to do color inversions (you have to do that with negative film). You can simply look at the original frame and have it as the reference to check the quality of a scan or print. And if you want to go the extra mile, you can also later add a projector to your setup.

On the other hand, negative film is cheaper, very forgiving and definitely easier to print at a lab. But you will be able to observe errors only if they are really big, ie the negative looks "thin" after development etc. You can play with both and see which one you like.

I would suggest you spend some time with a somewhat "manual" camera that doesn't have too much automation. A big viewfinder with a focus screen suitable for manual focusing to help you understand focusing and its limitations. Aperture priority and a reliable exposure meter with exposure lock so you can bias exposure the way you want. Plus the ability to choose everything manually.

I would say the Nikon F301 is a safe choice has all of these and it is extremely cheap on the used market. If you want to do multiple exposures it is a bit complicated, so in that case i would suggest a Nikon FE (a bit more expensive). After you get comfortable with the basics you can move to a similar but more robust camera (FE2, F3) or one with autofocus and modern options like the F801s, F90X, F80 etc...

Also beware of ordering "newer" cameras online. Many times the leatherette on the body becomes a sticky mess, their film doors have plastic latches that might break real easy or might be already half-broken when you get them.
 
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film_man

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Camerwise you can spend $10 on a Canon EOS 300 and another $100 on a Canon EF 50/1.8 STM. That gets you a pretty solid camera with an excellent meter, autofocus and basically makes it easy to shoot and a lens that is an excellent all rounder and can work with all the latest digital Canon bodies. It will do till you figure out what you want to do later on. There are tons of other camera combinations that you can have for very little money, any of those old M42 mount cameras and a Takumar 50/2 is a great combo, total cost $50 and fully manual if that's what you want, for example.

The camera is pretty much irrelevant at this stage. The thing to consider is how you are going to get to the image after you finish the roll. Are you going to develop it yourself? Are you going to scan it yourself? Are you going to print it in a darkroom? Or are you going to send it to a lab for dev + scan? If you are going to do it yourself consider the cost and time and trial effort. If you are going to send it to a lab find a lab and work with them to work out what you want (send a roll, give them feedback, send another roll, more feedback, etc). After 2-3 rounds you should be getting excellent results, if not you should find another lab.

A poor lab will give you scans that are basically not worth the time and money of film shooting, might as well go shoot with a phone from 2010.
 

Pentode

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3. What is the difference between an SLR and a rangefinder?
An SLR allows the photographer to focus and compose through the same lens that records the picture. It does so using a mirror and prism. A rangefinder has a separate viewing window that allows the photographer to compose and focus and it is a completely separate optical system from the actual taking lens. Each system has its pros and cons BUT... you're probably getting ahead of yourself here.

If your intention is to get a feel for film and see if you like it then you should be investing as little as possible at first. That means starting with your borrowed point & shoot and taking a close look at runswithsizzers' post above.

If, after a while, you decide you really dig film the next step would be to see if you can borrow a slightly more advanced camera. If you don't know anyone else who owns a film camera they can lend you then the definite choice would be to look for a used SLR. SLRs are easier to learn on than rangefinders and they are far more plentiful in the used market, which makes them much more affordable. You can probably find a complete SLR outfit - a body and two or three lenses - for the price of one good rangefinder lens if you're patient. Use the SLR for a while and if you're still loving film after you've really got the hang of it, that's the time to consider a rangefinder.

Rangefinders have a certain cache amongst film photographers but they're not the end-all. Some excellent photographers never warm up to them at all. Still others, those who are old enough to have been shooting when SLRs took over the market, couldn't wait to ditch their rangefinders and join the ranks of SLR users. Rangefinders are niche cameras, to a certain degree. I happen to love rangefinders but I'm not pie-eyed about it; SLRs are more versatile and, in my opinion, are a much better choice for someone who's just learning.
 

dmtnkl

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The camera is pretty much irrelevant at this stage. The thing to consider is how you are going to get to the image after you finish the roll. Are you going to develop it yourself? Are you going to scan it yourself? Are you going to print it in a darkroom? Or are you going to send it to a lab for dev + scan? If you are going to do it yourself consider the cost and time and trial effort. If you are going to send it to a lab find a lab and work with them to work out what you want (send a roll, give them feedback, send another roll, more feedback, etc). After 2-3 rounds you should be getting excellent results, if not you should find another lab.

I would advise against labs. Generally too expensive and unpredictable. Home development is really easy. I started developing E6 this year with zero prior experience and i get great consistent results just by buying a sous-vide for temperature control and following some practical advice from fellow members here. Negative B&W is even easier and cheaper to do it at home.

Scanning is also easy using a dedicated scanner or a digital camera + macro lens. Of course it can get really complicated if you start being too picky about your results.

Labs were a nightmare. I would go there only in the very beginning. I would try to switch to home developing as fast as possible.
 

George Mann

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One thing the other guys didn't mention is how much purchasing, processing and scanning a roll of film is going to cost you.

At current price levels, the average total cost is +/- $30 US. Printing can cost you more.

Are you comfortable with this?
 

baachitraka

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1) Get film developing kit. You need changing bag, developing tank with spool and some clips to dry the film.

2) Get Kodak D-76 the film developer, stop bath, fixer and wetting agent*. Instructions to mix are on the packages.

3) You may need a glass bottle 1l to store the developer and few jars for working solutions and a thermometer

4) Get a BW film roll. Kodak TMax 400 or ILFORD 400 film. Here the number 400 is film speed.

5) If your Mother's camera can read DX codes then you don't need to set the film speed (ISO settings) other set the speed to 400.

6) Shoot during Morning, Afternoon and Evening either people standing or motion, trees with some shadows, landscapes with sky

7) Carefully load the film into the spool and put it in the developing tank, all in dark changing bag. Plenty of videos in youtube.

8) Start the wonderful process of film development

*Not important but that helps uniform drying of the film
 

baachitraka

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You may need to maintain all the working solution at 20°C or 68 F

Then you mayunderstand about the exposure from the shade of the trees, film speed on fast moving subjects, contrast with sky (usage of colored filters) and the exposure in general.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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When I decided to get into photography, I picked up a Pentax K1000 from a local pawn shop for about $80 Canadian. It's called a student camera for a reason. It's all manual, allowing you to have control over apetures and shutter speeds. That was back in 1989. I still have it and still use it. I teach high school photography. Guess what cameras my students use? Pentax K1000! It's such a great little camera to learn on. I highly recommend it. You can find them for cheap on places like ebay, craigslist, etc.
When you pick a film, (I'm assuming you're going to shot B/W?) use it and only it, as well as one developer. After about a year or so, try that film with another developer. That's the best way to learn a film's characteristics.
Cheers! Have fun and welcome to film! It's the best!
 
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narsuitus

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Please describe your mother's film point and shoot.

Also, please describe the simple digital point and shoot camera you have been using for years.
 

BrianShaw

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I suggest you use your mother's film camera until you get familiar with film. Then you can decide what to use afterwards. Good luck.
I hereby retract my prior suggestion to endorse this one. After a roll or two, then do as I suggest. :smile:
 

George Mann

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He may prefer sticking to a compact camera that he can always have on him, improving his available opportunities.

A roll of film can take months to shoot.
 

alanrockwood

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Hello!
For years, I have been shooting on a simple digital point and shoot camera. Now I think it's time to get a better camera, but I need advice from more experienced photographers.

I'm interested in doing film photography.
Buying only a film camera is scary for me, cause I never did film photography before. I would like to have a smother transition. So I thought about practising photography with something like G9X + my mother's film point and shoot, and after I get comfortable with both of these, I want to get a film SLR.

1. Do you think this is a good plan?
2. What film cameras can you recommend?
3. What is the difference between an SLR and a rangefinder?
4. What old film cameras are compatible with modern lenses? I think it's important to have a good selection of lenses?
5. Do you think G9X is good to buy or should I choose sth else? It occurs to me that for this purpose having an optical viewfinder is nice, but I am on a budget.

My suggestion is that when you decide to upgrade to get a film camera you should strongly consider buying an SLR. They are more versatile than rangefinders, though there are pluses and minuses to each.

Among SLR cameras I am a big advocate of the Canon Rebel 2000 (EOS Kiss III in Japan, or 300 for the international model designation.) It is, I believe, the most popular film SLR camera in history. It is a very capable camera body in its own right, and it can use any of the huge selection of Canon lenses as well as a huge number of third party lenses. These can be found on ebay for a modest cost. The Canon Rebel T2 (Kiss 5 or 300X) is even better than the 2000. It is a little harder to find on ebay and a little more expensive, but worth buying it if you can find one. (If some day you want to upgrade your camera body there are a number of higher level Canon models to choose from, and you can keep your same lenses.)

Nikon and some other camera makers also make good cameras of comparable quality to Canon, and they also have a wide range of lenses and accessories, but if you are starting out fresh then Canon might be a little better choice because it is more popular, so it is a little easier to find camera bodies, lenses, and accessories for it.
 

Mick Fagan

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Irusia, welcome to Photrio, I hope your journey with us is a good and productive one.

Your plan is good. Can you tell us what your mother’s point and shoot camera is? The name and model number would help us so we can work out if you can easily use different film speeds.

As you already have a basic digital camera, I am assuming you have grown out of it and wish to progress to a better featured model. The GX9 camera looks appealing in the specification sheet as an advanced point and shoot digital camera with some quite advanced features. I am not a digital camera person, but looking at the specification sheet it seems that this would indeed be a very well equipped travel camera with the ability to do quite interesting photography whether you are travelling or not travelling.

The main difference between an SLR (Single Lens Reflex) and a range finder is that when you look through an eyepiece of an SLR you are looking through the lens. What you see is what you get and what you see, is what the film will see when you press the button.

With a rangefinder, the focusing window is usually near the edge of the camera and you see an approximate image of what the film will see. You focus by aligning up two images into a single image, then you use the viewfinder image to compose your picture. What you see, is not exactly what the film will see. After using a roll of film or two, you will quickly have an idea of where the image is missing and where the image is greater than what you see.

I would suggest if you do decide to try film photography more seriously, then an SLR is the better option. As you are located near Germany and may have access to their market, what we call an SLR is called a spiegelreflexcamera, which in direct translation to English is “Mirror Reflex Camera,” this is technically a very correct description as the image is reflected from a mirror onto more mirrors, so we see the image right way up.

I would think you will be exposing film and either developing it yourself or getting someone to develop it for you. Then you would scan the film and do the rest digitally. If you use colour film, then you will send the film away, if you use black and white (B&W) film then you can also send the film away, but this is sometimes more expensive than colour film.

Developing your own B&W film is quite easy and not that expensive to set up. The chemicals are generally available in kit form in that you buy a developer, stop bath and fixer chemical set. We can certainly help you if you wish to try doing this. To develop film you do not need a darkroom, 40+ years ago I loaded film at night in a completely dark room, sometimes in a wardrobe (closet to Americans) in the daytime.

As for which SLR, some are quite good because of their size, some are good because of their range of lenses and the price of these lenses. With regard to size, when the Olympus OM1 came out in the 70’s my then girlfriend immediately bought one. She was quite a small person and had very small hands, this made things very easy for her as all other SLR cameras at the time were quite big in comparison. This size thing may be relevant to you, I don’t know. Unfortunately Olympus cameras are in short supply and their lenses, although brilliant, are slightly more expensive than other brands.

In Australia where I live, Pentax and Nikon SLR cameras were the most sold, so the second hand market in this country is dominated by these two brands. I would suggest that if you can, go to a modern camera shop in your area and find someone who is middle aged to almost retirement age and ask them what was the most dominant camera in your country in the late 70’s through to the 90’s and if they were reliable. With that information, you should be able to make an informed decision of what to try and buy.

For a personal suggestion of which camera brand to purchase and going on one of your questions, the Nikon brand SLR cameras have the longest line of using the same lens mount. In short, a modern Nikon lens (Nikkor) will be able to mostly go on all of their older camera bodies and work well enough to use completely manually.

I hope this helps.

Mick.
 
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I hereby retract my prior suggestion to endorse this one. After a roll or two, then do as I suggest. :smile:
We probably frightened him so much technically, he'll never get past his mom's camera. :smile:
 

Europan

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To make things easier enter with a movie camera. One of those Double-Eight film machines that relieve you from the subject of time. Exposure time is always the same when you run, say, 16 frames per second. You just care about diaphragm stops. Ektachrome 100 Daylight is available as Double Eight, although expensive. If your lightmeter says f/32 or something, you screw a ND (neutral density, gray) filter on the lens, say, a 4 times one. It brings the f/32 value to f/16 and that is on every cine lens. If you pick a camera with the D mount (UN ⅝"-32 thread) for interchanging lenses, you have a vast choice of lenses from all over the world.

The Film Photography Project provides black-and-white Double Eight stocks. You can have immediate fun and pleasure with a hot 8mm projector to watch your pictures BIG at home. We used to find everything hot in the seventies.
 

film_man

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I would advise against labs. Generally too expensive and unpredictable. Home development is really easy. I started developing E6 this year with zero prior experience and i get great consistent results just by buying a sous-vide for temperature control and following some practical advice from fellow members here. Negative B&W is even easier and cheaper to do it at home.

Scanning is also easy using a dedicated scanner or a digital camera + macro lens. Of course it can get really complicated if you start being too picky about your results.

Labs were a nightmare. I would go there only in the very beginning. I would try to switch to home developing as fast as possible.

Cheap labs are a nightmare indeed and not worth the time and money. Good labs are expensive but are very much worth the money. My lab charges me £15 for dev and scan, however I cannot remember the last time I had to do any edits to my scans, they are for all intents and purposes perfect (my lab edits each frame individually).

Some thoughts on home dev + scan as they apple to me. Home development is only viable if you have the space (a room to make light tight and storage for all the bits when you're not using them) and time. I used to do scanning myself ages ago. I bought a scanner, then a better one then some software so all this costs money, probably a good £700 it did. Regardless, a home scanner will NEVER get you scans as good as a Noritsu/Frontier with a good operator. The home scanners just cannot get the dynamic range.

So in the end, I had a choice of spending a good hour per roll (dev+scan) for substandard results or pay £15 and have someone do better. So as the saying goes, money vs time and all that. However I understand the fascination of home dev and if you couple it with wet printing it is great (back in the day hated dev but loved wet printing). Anyway I'd encourage people to try everything, just understand what the expectations and possibilities are for a given amount of time and money. :smile:
 
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