Tough Rangefinder for $500 or less?

Huss · Mar 30, 2023

Müller Schmid said:
Any recommended sources for a Contax iia or Nikon? I know of some good Leica specialists when I was hunting down an M5 and M3.

Nikon Rangefinder

Nikon: Specializing in Nikkor rangefinder cameras, Nikon rangefinder lenses, Nikon SP, Nikon S2, Nikon S3, Nikon S, Nikon VarioFrame finder, Nikon SM lenses, Nikon Viewfinders and Nikon Rangefinder Accessories

www.igorcamera.com

4season · Mar 30, 2023

The most bricklike RF cameras that I’m aware of are FED 5 series, which are often sold with well-regarded Industar 61L/D. Shutter speed dial is typical Soviet lift-to-set type, and some effort is needed to use the slower speeds, because you are cocking the slow-speed escapement. I chose FED5c variant which does away with adjustable viewfinder diopter but makes it easier to see entire 50 mm frame area. Camera back and body are thick metal castings, so it’s no lightweight outfit, but it certainly is solid-feeling.

Müller Schmid · Mar 30, 2023

Huss said:
Nikon Rangefinder

Nikon: Specializing in Nikkor rangefinder cameras, Nikon rangefinder lenses, Nikon SP, Nikon S2, Nikon S3, Nikon S, Nikon VarioFrame finder, Nikon SM lenses, Nikon Viewfinders and Nikon Rangefinder Accessories

www.igorcamera.com

Thank you!

4season said:
The most bricklike RF cameras that I’m aware of are FED 5 series, which are often sold with well-regarded Industar 61L/D. Shutter speed dial is typical Soviet lift-to-set type, and some effort is needed to use the slower speeds, because you are cocking the slow-speed escapement. I chose FED5c variant which does away with adjustable viewfinder diopter but makes it easier to see entire 50 mm frame area. Camera back and body are thick metal castings, so it’s no lightweight outfit, but it certainly is solid-feeling.

Interesting. I certainly like the price. Does the meter on yours work?

Alex Benjamin · Mar 30, 2023

Huss said:
Nikon Rangefinder

Nikon: Specializing in Nikkor rangefinder cameras, Nikon rangefinder lenses, Nikon SP, Nikon S2, Nikon S3, Nikon S, Nikon VarioFrame finder, Nikon SM lenses, Nikon Viewfinders and Nikon Rangefinder Accessories

www.igorcamera.com

Just received a very fine 35mm f/3.5 lens for my S2 from Igor.

@Müller Schmid : one thing you have to be aware of. Lower-budget rangefinders often have brightlines only for one type lens—the 50mm in the case of the S2—and these are not parallax corrected. This means that you'll have to add an external viewfinder if you want to get other lenses such as the 35mm, the 28mm, the 85mm or the 105mm. They are sometimes sold with the external viewfinder, sometimes not, and some of these viewfinders have parallax correction, some have not. So this, obviously, adds to the price tag. Option is to get a Nikon SP, but it costs double what the S2 costs...

Leica View Finders

Müller Schmid · Mar 30, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
Just received a very fine 35mm f/3.5 lens for my S2 from Igor.

@Müller Schmid : one thing you have to be aware of. Lower-budget rangefinders often have brightlines only for one type lens—the 50mm in the case of the S2—and these are not parallax corrected. This means that you'll have to add an external viewfinder if you want to get other lenses such as the 35mm, the 28mm, the 85mm or the 105mm. They are sometimes sold with the external viewfinder, sometimes not, and some of these viewfinders have parallax correction, some have not. So this, obviously, adds to the price tag. Option is to get a Nikon SP, but it costs double what the S2 costs...

Leica View Finders

I am happy to start with the a 50mm only and if the optional finders become annoying when I add a lens I can switch to the SP or just go for a Leica unless I really love the Nikon glass.

4season · Mar 30, 2023

Müller Schmid said:
Thank you!

Interesting. I certainly like the price. Does the meter on yours work?

Yup, and because they can still be had as new-old stock, it shouldn’t be too difficult to find other examples with working meter.

Arthurwg · Mar 31, 2023

You might be able to find a Barnack Leica for that money.

P C Headland · Mar 31, 2023

A left field choice could be a later model Braun, like the Braun Paxette Super IIBL. Frame lines for 35mm/50mm and 135mm (I think). They're fairly compact and solid feeling. Later models had a bayonet mount, the II has a screw mount.

I had the Super IIBL, everything worked including the meter. The only thing I needed to do as fix the somewhat stiff rewind mechanism. Quite a fun little camera.

guangong · Mar 31, 2023

Any late model screw mount Canon (improved construction and design compared to sm Leicas) or P, Nikon S2 (but lenses can be pricey), these are tough workhorse cameras that can sell for less than brand L. Another often overlooked option is Contax IIa. These often sell for very reasonable prices, but I would only buy from reliable dealer (KEH, Igor’s, Robert’s, etc) and not from eBay.

Flighter · Mar 31, 2023

Müller Schmid said:
I am considering a FED 1, FED 3, Kiev II, Canon P, maybe a Bessa? What would you recommend?

Based on your user name, I thought you would be going for a Kiev 4M

Rrrgcy · Apr 2, 2023

I see another player out there in left field, a little German kid. Kodak Retina ii and iii series, 50mm lens removable and two other lens wide 35mm and longer 80mm available and all three easily slipped in an exceptionally very small bag. Wonderful glass. Leaf blade shutter. Should it have issues, twist off the lens, douse shutter system w lighter fluid really good, shake out (and wipe blades carefully) and repeat (and give it a day+ to completely wet off) and it’s super high chance it’ll be running perfect again. Precision camera, can be serviced. Camera w the 50mm and the other lenses each well under $100 a piece. If yours hasn’t the added frame lines the accessory viewfinder is cheap and neat design. Small compact, lens easy to twist on/off, big good view through the camera. Solid dense feeling heavy-ish camera (small brick). Possible solution for about $200+ all-in w the added lenses. As said accessories limited in variety and inexpensive for a full system. And you could name it after yourself.

I’ve enjoyed his videos:

Paul Howell · Apr 2, 2023

I've have a Retina IIIC big, for very long time, given to me by my aunts in 1965, it was my first 35mm camera. The build quality is good, the lens as noted by Rrrgcy are very good, but slow, the lens are not true interchangeable, the front element of the standard 50mm is replaced by a supplemental lens that does not couple to the rangefinder. The user need to focus on the scene then transfer that reading to the lens. The light meter is not couple the lens or shutter speed and uses E.V numbers which are set to the shutter that is linked to the aperture, hard to over ride and if the meter is not actives need a meter with EV readout. It is fiddley to use, small controls, and many steps to rewind and load new film. Strong point is it easy to carry, downside only a few techs will work them. But if the IIIC peaks your interest then maybe a IIIS, last of the Kodak top of the line rangefinders. Built in view frames for lens from 28mm to 135 with lens that work on the Retina Reflex with the cams. It will take the 200mm with a 200 viewfinder but will not couple to the the rangefinder. The lens are true interchangeable types made by Rodenstock and Schneider and tend to slow.

Huss · Apr 3, 2023

Müller Schmid said:
I am happy to start with the a 50mm only and if the optional finders become annoying when I add a lens I can switch to the SP or just go for a Leica unless I really love the Nikon glass.

This one looks nice

FS: Nikon S2 rangefinder with Nikkor 5cm F1.4

traveler_101 · Apr 3, 2023

Paul Howell said:
Canon P or 7, the old Soviet Cameras have their fans but from I've read, mostly here on Phototrio, are not all that well made and reliable. I see Canon 7 going for under $300. I had a 7s, it was by second body to my Nikon SLR when a working PJ, although not as rugged as my Leica IIIG it was much easier to load film and has built in frame finders for a number of lens. If you set a 7 or 7s with a working meters a bonus.

I have a Canon 7 which I have used pretty extensively with larger lenses - especially Voigtlander 35mm Ultron. The OP asked for a durable camera and the 7 is a tank, rugged, handles larger lenses and has a nice quiet shutter and smooth advance. Has an external selenium meter which actually works on mine once you get the hang of it. But it is a 60 year old camera. The viewfinder on my has clear frame lines 35, 50, 85 and 135, but it is not as clear and bright as the viewfinder on my Bessa R. Still I have had no trouble focusing the camera.

GRHazelton · Apr 3, 2023

AnselMortensen said:
My vote goes for a Canon P.
Lots of LTM lenses available to fit your budget.
I have one as a walking-around camera.
Nice big viewfinder, easy to load...kinda like a rangefinder version of an FTb.
Almost all of them have wrinkled shutter curtains to some degree, mine included, however mine works fine.

I have a Canon P with 50mm f1.8, 35mm f1.8, and 100mm f2. A lovely camera to use, with parallax corrrected frames for those lenses always visible. Do note that the frames don't have a separate window to illuminate them, so they aren't as bright as some others.
My P has wrinkled shutter curtains, and the shutter has begun to run slow at low speeds until exercised. The CLA prices I've been quoted aren't cheap.

Patrick Robert James · Apr 3, 2023

I have always been fond of the Canon 7. Best bang for the buck in the rangefinder world. Plus you have a ton of lenses to choose from. You could even get modern glass for it from Voigtlander. They are really well made cameras. I have two, one of them was rebuilt and it operates like butter. So smooooth. It was a competitor to the Leica M3 back in the day. The meters on both of mine work, but I think one needs an adjustment. If you find one with a working meter just call that a bonus. Only downside to them is the lack of a cold shoe. The 7s has one though but those are more expensive. Still well inside your budget though.

Nikons are nice too but as already has been mentioned, lens choice isn't great. I've never owned one but I would.

Russian rangefinders are fun cameras. I have owned a few. I wouldn't use one as a main camera though. I have a Zorki 5 these days with an underwound shutter that is nice and quiet. Fun camera in very small doses.

As far as the Contax/Nikon question. i'd get the Nikon these days even though I've owned quite a few Contax over the years. Back in the 90s I shot with them all the time. Great cameras but the Nikons have better viewfinders I think. That matters.

Hope that helps.

abruzzi · Apr 3, 2023

I'd second the Retina IIIC or IIC. (the III has a meter that you may or may not want to use) The capital C what the last generation, which means that the viewfinder has brightlines for all three focal lengths--50, 35, and 80. The lower case c model has only 50mm brightlines, and you need an add-on finder for the other lenses.

Build quality is superb, and the Schneider Retina-Xenon 50mm lens is probably my all time favorite on 35mm cameras. The other focal lengths require jumping through some hoops (I. focus in the viewfinder, II. read the distance scale on top of the lens, III. on the underside of the camera, dial in the distance reading, IV. back to the viewfinder, frame andshoot.)

The meter on my IIIC still works fine, and since it is a folder, the whole thing fits in the back pocket of my jeans. Probably the thing I like least about it is the countdown frame counter--when you load a roll, you have to adjust the counter up to 24 or 36 or whatever, then shoot down. When you take shot #1 on the counter, you can't take any more. So if you want to capture that last frame or two, you have to roll up the frame counter a bit so you can keep going.

GRHazelton · Apr 3, 2023

Rrrgcy said:
I see another player out there in left field, a little German kid. Kodak Retina ii and iii series, 50mm lens removable and two other lens wide 35mm and longer 80mm available and all three easily slipped in an exceptionally very small bag. Wonderful glass. Leaf blade shutter. Should it have issues, twist off the lens, douse shutter system w lighter fluid really good, shake out (and wipe blades carefully) and repeat (and give it a day+ to completely wet off) and it’s super high chance it’ll be running perfect again. Precision camera, can be serviced. Camera w the 50mm and the other lenses each well under $100 a piece. If yours hasn’t the added frame lines the accessory viewfinder is cheap and neat design. Small compact, lens easy to twist on/off, big good view through the camera. Solid dense feeling heavy-ish camera (small brick). Possible solution for about $200+ all-in w the added lenses. As said accessories limited in variety and inexpensive for a full system. And you could name it after yourself.

I’ve enjoyed his videos:

I have a Retina IIIc with the f2 Xenon, and also the 35mm and 80mm "converters", which I rarely use. While the camera with the 50mm is handy and a pleasure to use, the other lenses are, to me at least, really inconvenient.
My understanding is that the bottom film advance mechanism is a weak point. So if you send off for repair your bottom advance Retina be sure to have the "rack" at least inspected and perhaps replaced, if NOS parts are available.
Chris Sherlock in New Zealand has been the go to guy for Retina repair; sadly he has retired from the repair biz, but his site retinarescue.com is still live. It is full of good info, both on the various Retina and DIY tips and cautions. His site recommends a repair site in Oregon, which would avoid the cost and possible hassles of foreign repair shipments.
I do find myself reaching for - rather than my Retina IIIc - my Voigtlander Vitessa L with the excellent Ultron f2 and its parallax corrected viewfinder. Granted the plunger film advance is, I am told, a horror to repair, but while all works, its good to go.

Marcelo Paniagua · Apr 3, 2023

Retina's are excellent one lens cameras. As stated, supplementary lens are fiddle to use and to be honest not that useful. I had some models a while ago but decided to keep the LTM Leicas so sold all of Retina's (about 8 of them) when they where desirable a year or so ago.

I think they are great one lens camera and pretty small but wouldnt recommend them for someone looking for a multilens kit.

Paul Howell · Apr 3, 2023

The only Retina rangefinder with true interchangeable lens is the non folding S, last of the line. The lens for the S can be used on the Reflex line as well, but not all Reflex lens can used on the S as some do not the cam. I still use my IIIC big when I shooting large format, folded up it tucks away in one my bags.

Huss · Apr 3, 2023

I recently used a near perfect, recently CLA-d Retina iia.

And, well, compared to a Canon P, 7 or Nikon S2, well.. no. The viewfinder is so much worse unless you like small with no frame lines, and the rf blob is much harder to see. And then dealing w the film rewinding? Or setting the shutter speeds and apertures? Or the awkward focusing?

It was fun to use, but given the choice, the P or S2 or… are so much easier and quicker and nicer to use that no way would I recommend a Retina unless that was what you could afford. Or you wanted one for the collection.

Paul Howell · Apr 4, 2023

I have both a 3CIII and 3CIII big, forgot were or when I got the standard CIII, but your right, viewfinder is small, the CIII big has pretty good viewfinder.

OAPOli · Apr 4, 2023

Huss said:
I recently used a near perfect, recently CLA-d Retina iia.

And, well, compared to a Canon P, 7 or Nikon S2, well.. no. The viewfinder is so much worse unless you like small with no frame lines, and the rf blob is much harder to see. And then dealing w the film rewinding? Or setting the shutter speeds and apertures? Or the awkward focusing?

It was fun to use, but given the choice, the P or S2 or… are so much easier and quicker and nicer to use that no way would I recommend a Retina unless that was what you could afford. Or you wanted one for the collection.

Very true. Also, the opened cover leaves no grip on the right side, filters are hard to find and will impede the cover from closing. Lovely camera but not great for frequent use.

Radost · Apr 4, 2023

Minolta CL
Leica CL
You can get one without working meter cheaper.
Use M Lenses on it.

Thwyllo · Apr 6, 2023

Seriously don't go with that russian crap, I've bought plenty for the lenses only and almost without fail the bodies are unusable and difficult or messy to fix. Your money would buy you an excellent Nikkormat and lens if you aren't fixated on rangefinder, or the Nikon FE is just an outstanding all-rounder.

Tough Rangefinder for $500 or less?

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