Totally fogged film; what caused it?

Melvin J Bramley

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I just developed a roll of Delta 100 taken with an old Rolleiflex.
The negatives are totally black suggesting a huge light leak!
Are Rollies susceptible to light leaks?
The film had been in the camera for about 3 months and stored in a cupboard.

I previously run a roll of film through this camera with no problems.
 

F4U

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No those cameras are not known for light leaks. Even if that was a problem, only 3 frames would be the maximum number of blakened frames, if that. Somehow the roll of film was completely exposed to light, having nothing to do with the camera.
 

JPD

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I agree with F4U.

Is the developed film completely black? No frames? No edge markings?
 

F4U

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The only in-camera thing that could cause that is if the shutter was broken in the open position, but still "clicked" anyway, leading you to believe it was operating normally. But in personal experience, a Rollei with shutter problems like that will "click", but never actually open. Meaning all blank frames. A highly over-rated camera.
 

baachitraka

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I will never say highly over-rated camera, it's the nature of the mechanical shutters that need maintenance perhaps once in 10 years.

Indeed it's a reliable camera that work when it is maintained.
 

250swb

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Melvin J Bramley said:
The negatives are totally black suggesting a huge light leak!
Are Rollies susceptible to light leaks?
Click to expand...

No they aren't because the door relies on it's design of baffles that stops light entering and even an open shutter would still leave the edge of the film unexposed. Additionally the film is protected by it's backing paper so even if the door had been opened it's likely an image or two would survive. So if it's totally black all over with no edge marking I think it's been exposed to light at the processing stage.
 

campy51

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The blades are stuck together so they don't open. Set the camera to 1 second and look to see if the blades actually open and close.
 

Dan Daniel

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What model Rolleiflex?

It's hard to see how most any camera would make the film be completely exposed. That's a lot of light.

Have you looked at your developing tank? Any light baffle problems? Loading bag or room?

Quick scan of camera- any missing screws- spools knobs, focus hood? Tripod socket having inner cap pushed off. If there is a bellows around lens- look from back- is it ripped or decayed.
 

John Wiegerink

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Without knowing whether or not the total negative area is black or just the normal image area of 56mm x 56mm it's going to be impossible to pinpoint the exact problem.
 

retina_restoration

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He said the film was totally black, which is gross overexposure, not lack thereof, which would result in blank film. Any leaf shutter camera that has oil on the blades will make the firing "click" but not actually open the shutter This is not unique to Rollei cameras.
 

John Wiegerink

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I have had cameras that have sat far to long without being exercised that would actually not close there shutter blades completely after exposure. Everything sounded completely normal when shooting other than the blades not closing tightly. If just the 56mm x 56mm frame area is black then I'd say that could be the likely cause in the OP's case..
As far as the totally black film question? I'm not 100% sure that the OP is actually using "totally black" the same way you or I might. I'm waiting to hear the clear definition from the OP.
 

Light Capture

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+1 on this.
It does seem to appear more often on older Rolleiflexes for whatever reason.
Blades are usually dirty or oily when this happens. Could be due to the modification on the shutter to fit Rollei or lighter fluid or similar treatment at some point.
Over lubrication will do it. Or storage in high temperature will also separate oil from grease and make oil more runny.
In my experience the only way to restore these shutters reliably is full disassembly and thorough cleaning of the blades and everything else. It's particularly important on Rollei.
 

retina_restoration

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John Wiegerink said:
As far as the totally black film question? I'm not 100% sure that the OP is actually using "totally black" the same way you or I might. I'm waiting to hear the clear definition from the OP.
Click to expand...

I wonder about that too. Does he mean the entire film is black, or just every frame is black, but leaving clear areas outside the frame areas? We need clarification.
If the entire film is black with no clear margins, no visible frame numbers, then the film has been exposed to light at some point prior to development. Could be the OP left a safelight on while loading the film into the tank (seems unlikely I know, but...) or if a Paterson tank was used and the center spindle omitted (they still use that design, yes?) then that could expose the whole roll during development.

I'm betting that the frames themselves are grossly overexposed, which indicates a shutter that sticks open or never completely closes. More info please, Melvin.
 
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Melvin J Bramley

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I'm beginning to suspect a fixer issue. and that the film fogged when I opened the film tank!
I use a Paterson tank on a Unicolor roller base and always throw in a small piece of 35mm negative for the first minute of agitation and check to see if it clears, then , for Delta films, fix for 7 mins.
Perhaps I had fixer sudden death?
 

retina_restoration

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The film would not come out black just because your fixer wasn't behaving optimally. All development has stopped by the time the film comes in contact with the fixer.
Can you please tell us, is the entire strip of film BLACK (or did you mean BLANK??) or are the margins clear, showing the frame numbers? A photo of the film would be immensely helpful.
 

F4U

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No, not a fixer issue. But surmising from your latest post, it can be assumed the entire film is black. Edges, frame spaces, everything. Fixer won't die to total inertness all at once, or ever, to the point film turns black instantly after opening the tank. Sound like a darkroom error.
 

John Wiegerink

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Thank you, thank you, thank you! Now we actually know what you mean by "totally black". So it's not a camera issue, it's a developement/film issue.
 

John Wiegerink

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I have never seen a developer cause anything like this, but if something was accidentally mixed with the developer who knows what it would do. Nobody used the roll as a practice roll for loading a 120 film tank reel? This is a good one for Sherlock Holmes.
 

GregY

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It's a film /light/development issue.....as described.... not a Rolleiflex issue per se.
 

retina_restoration

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Melvin J Bramley said:
The fix is good, maybe I used stop bath twice!
Click to expand...

That would not result in a totally black roll of film. That's what you mean, yes? The film is BLACK, completely, with no clear areas whatsoever? As I say, a photo of the film would be instructive.

A roll of film that was completely BLACK indicates that it was exposed to light before development. Unless something truly bizarre happened to the developer (I can't imagine what) to cause all unexposed silver to reduce to metallic silver, a chemical accident seems unlikely. I'm betting on user error at some stage.
 
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