Tornado Chasing Tours Questions

jnanian said:

i'm not one to say " don't do what you want to do" but whatever you do, be
safe. tornados don't really care who you are, and once you pay your $$ and sign the waiver, the tour company don't really care either ...

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Sage advice. (Although the tour company should care enough to avoid bad press, like losing clients).

Murray

I was given these links at another forum. Just in case anyone else out there cares to join me next year!

http://www.cloud9tours.com/
http://www.silverliningtours.com/
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http://www.stormchaser.com/chaseadventure.html
http://www.windsweptchasetours.com/
http://www.f5tornadosafaris.com/
http://www.stormchasing.com/
http://www.thunderbolttours.com/
http://www.tornadosafari.com/
http://www.tornadoexpress.com/
http://www.traddstormchasingtours.com/
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snegron said:

I was given these links at another forum. Just in case anyone else out there cares to join me next year!

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Yer kiddin' me. All I see here is a bunch of people buckin' for the Darwin award. I didn't get past the fourth link because this is ridiculous. Of the ones I glanced at, three storms stand out fresh in the mind from this season. The one taken in Southwest Kansas on May 5 is the Greensburg tornado. It was on the ground for a full 90 miles and stopped just short of ripping through the major town of Great Bend. Although the human casualties were remarkably low due to rapid warning of the citizenry, there were many hundreds, perhaps a few thousand livestock animals killed by it. Haven't seen any definitive figures published, just random estimates. Numerous relatives of mine were in its path and experienced it first hand and up close. None of them thought it was a wondrously beautiful event. It also caused a complete re-definition of the tornado computer models. Quite magnificent. The ones that struck Hill City and Ashland were also of record severity.

People died in these storms while these yo-yo's were out enjoying the wonderful majesty of nature's fury a safe distance away. None of those yo-yos' had to contend with the aftermath neither. They went home and showed their friends, family, and neighbors their magnificent tornado pictures while the residents were trying to clean up and bury the dead. I wonder if any of those happy snappers in Southwest Kansas hefted a shovel full of debris in Greensburg or contributed a buck to the relief fund?

Dodging a tornado in a modern vehicle is not hard if you understand how to judge the movement of the funnel relative to your motion. The key is put you vehicle on a course that is oblique to the storm's track. The skill is called relative motion analysis. Like I said, you have to learn to make the judgments while driving a vehicle at high speed and observing how your motion relates to the track of the storm. In Southwest Kansas, we learn that skill early on. Ol' Darwin takes care of the ones who don't learn it.

Evading a tornado successfully also assumes that (1) you have a road available, going the right direction to successfully evade (2) such road isn't blocked by debris such as large trees, downed power lines, washouts or flash floods (3) you visibility isn't totally obscured in all directions by heaven rain, and (4) you don't get hit by very large hail that busts out you windshield that's keeping all the debris, heavy rain, and large hail out of your face while you're trying to drive down an unpaved road at 70 mph. Looks easy on TV.

If any one of the above assumptions proves false, you're a Darwin award nominee.

Check your life insurance policy. You will most likely find a clause that exempts benefit payment if death or injury occurs as a result of storm chasing. Make sure you have a will in effect.

Outside of all that, have a wonderful experience of a lifetime and enjoy the magnificence of nature.

Oh yeah, forgot one thing. Since you have several months until next year's prime tornado system, try this as part of you preparations. First, see how large an obstacle your vehicle can go over at 70 mph without blowing out one or more tires. Following that, practice changing tires in heavy rain, with steady winds between 70 and 100 mph. For added realism, place at least four taught strands of barbed wire across the road under your vehicle. The barbed wire is to be placed such that at least one part of your body is in contact with it at all times during the exercise.

After those exercises, contemplate what happens if all four tires are blown out and you have approximately three minutes before tornado crosses your location. Cell phone communications are dead. No Emergency Response personnel can reach your location until at least one hour after the tornado passes. The object of these exercises is to get your mind thinking of contingency plans that will negate impact of these postulated events.

Alex,

Since you are so Darwinesk about those chasing storms for a vacation, how does that same Darwin approach work for those who chose to LIVE in areas prone to tornadoes? Let alone those of us living in coastal California with earthquakes, or those folks up in Washington on the slopes or down hill from vocanoes, or those living along the Gulf of Mexico with the hurricanes.

I would think it would be a lot safer traveling for a week with professionals who are part of the volunteer tornado watch corps (as in the 3 sites I randomly looked at) than living in the same areas all of one's life.

What got me was one tour where visitors could ride with the guide -- or have their private vehicles "or a rental vehicle". I'd like to see the look on the rental agent's face when one says "I'm going to use your vehicle to chase tornadoes, I'd like a little extra insurance, please."LOL!

Nature is awesome -- I just don't see the connection between photographing a storm and the suffering people might have as a result of the storm -- there just is no logical connection. While the storms that Alex was mentioned were happening, I was probably having a great time here in CA -- should I feel guilty about it, too? Also, the tours I read about donate part of the participants' fees to storm-related causes...so the participants are giving their money to help out.

Vaughn

snegron said:

I was given these links at another forum. Just in case anyone else out there cares to join me next year!

http://www.cloud9tours.com/
http://www.silverliningtours.com/
Dead Link Removed
http://www.stormchaser.com/chaseadventure.html
http://www.windsweptchasetours.com/
http://www.f5tornadosafaris.com/
http://www.stormchasing.com/
http://www.thunderbolttours.com/
http://www.tornadosafari.com/
http://www.tornadoexpress.com/
http://www.traddstormchasingtours.com/
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I rather spend wipe my ass with a hand full of razor blades!

Steve

Alex Hawley said:

People died in these storms while these yo-yo's were out enjoying the wonderful majesty of nature's fury a safe distance away. None of those yo-yos' had to contend with the aftermath neither. They went home and showed their friends, family, and neighbors their magnificent tornado pictures while the residents were trying to clean up and bury the dead.

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You hit right on the nail from my pov.
Marc

The same could be said of anyone traveling to the poorer areas of Tibet, Nepal, China, Cambodia, India, Mexico, much of Africa . . . Appalachia, Mississippi, many of the western reservations . . .

What's the difference?

snegron said:

I was given these links at another forum. Just in case anyone else out there cares to join me next year!

http://www.cloud9tours.com/
http://www.silverliningtours.com/
Dead Link Removed
http://www.stormchaser.com/chaseadventure.html
http://www.windsweptchasetours.com/
http://www.f5tornadosafaris.com/
http://www.stormchasing.com/
http://www.thunderbolttours.com/
http://www.tornadosafari.com/
http://www.tornadoexpress.com/
http://www.traddstormchasingtours.com/
Dead Link Removed
Dead Link Removed
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After looking at a few of these links - I'm pleased to see that "hucksterism" remains alive an well in the Midwest.

Alex Hawley said:

People died in these storms while these yo-yo's were out enjoying the wonderful majesty of nature's fury a safe distance away. None of those yo-yos' had to contend with the aftermath neither. They went home and showed their friends, family, and neighbors their magnificent tornado pictures while the residents were trying to clean up and bury the dead.

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How would the outcome have been different if the "yo-yo's" stayed home (aside from spending all that disposable income somewhere else)?

Should we all stop photorgraphing lightning because it sometimes kills people? How about storm clouds that drown people in flash floods? Snowstorms that cause fatal traffic accidents? I don't think so.

I think you should all be ashamed when you drink a glass of water; it kills so many people each year and your are an accomplice by enjoying the glass.:rolleyes:

That's why I only drink beer. There's a theory this helps the environment by taking water from water-rich countries like Canada and redistributing it to water poor countries like the U.S., but only if you "expel" it outdoors, and not into a water-treatment plant. Mind you, I don't think it's a very serious theory . . . but more research need to be done.

Vaughn said:

Alex,

Since you are so Darwinesk about those chasing storms for a vacation, how does that same Darwin approach work for those who chose to LIVE in areas prone to tornadoes? Let alone those of us living in coastal California with earthquakes, or those folks up in Washington on the slopes or down hill from vocanoes, or those living along the Gulf of Mexico with the hurricanes.

I would think it would be a lot safer traveling for a week with professionals who are part of the volunteer tornado watch corps (as in the 3 sites I randomly looked at) than living in the same areas all of one's life.

What got me was one tour where visitors could ride with the guide -- or have their private vehicles "or a rental vehicle". I'd like to see the look on the rental agent's face when one says "I'm going to use your vehicle to chase tornadoes, I'd like a little extra insurance, please."LOL!

Nature is awesome -- I just don't see the connection between photographing a storm and the suffering people might have as a result of the storm -- there just is no logical connection. While the storms that Alex was mentioned were happening, I was probably having a great time here in CA -- should I feel guilty about it, too? Also, the tours I read about donate part of the participants' fees to storm-related causes...so the participants are giving their money to help out.

Vaughn

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And here I was, wondering if I was the only one who failed to draw a connection????

Besides I have never seen downed telephone poles before the storm arrived...never in over sixty years of living there...must have missed something!!!!

Heck, I might ought to go back and have one of those storm chasers haul me arround.

My motivation in this thread was to dissuade persons that have no knowledge or experience in this subject from going out on their own and winding up in a tragic situation. But, as I just saw on the news, some people feel compelled to run with the bulls in the nude. Then they wonder why some people got gored by a bull. :confused:

One last bit of anecdotal experience. A couple guys, both seemingly well-experienced, came to this area to enjoy nature on a lake with famous fishing experience potential. On this day, lovely Nature's wind was blowing at a steady 40-50 mph. No tornado, just very strong winds. These guys sneered at all the local yokels who warned them not to go. Their bodies weren't recovered until spring, several months later.

Now its time to put this thread on ignore.

Alex Hawley said:

My motivation in this thread was to dissuade persons that have no knowledge or experience in this subject from going out on their own and winding up in a tragic situation. But, as I just saw on the news, some people feel compelled to run with the bulls in the nude. Then they wonder why some people got gored by a bull. :confused:

One last bit of anecdotal experience. A couple guys, both seemingly well-experienced, came to this area to enjoy nature on a lake with famous fishing experience potential. On this day, lovely Nature's wind was blowing at a steady 40-50 mph. No tornado, just very strong winds. These guys sneered at all the local yokels who warned them not to go. Their bodies weren't recovered until spring, several months later.

Now its time to put this thread on ignore.

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People come to Florida every year for fishing and other water sports activities like parasailing. Many are lost at sea, eaten by aligators, or struck by lighning as they are parasailing. Should we tell these tourists not to participate in any of these activities?

Also, the media photographers (no offense meant) are the ones who capture the human misery images after the destruction. It sells newspapers and raises ratings on TV. I remember having a conversation about this with a photojournalist friend of mine back in the early 80's. He mentioned that sadly the best thing that could happen to a photojournalist's career is that an airplane would plunge to the ground in front of him as he captured the images. Human misery sells for whatever twisted reason. I don't plan on selling any of my images because I am not setting out to capture images of human misery or destruction.

Like all of my personal work, images that I enjoy taking, are for my personal viewing pleasure. I don't show any of my personal work to my clients or anyone else because it is not work related. My personal photographs are on constant exhibition in my home. I do not need to share them with anyone because I do not need neither praise nor critisism. I shot the images for myself to be viewed by me. Each image I take has a very important meaning to me.

The tornado images will be the same. I have no need or desire to show them to anyone. They are for my personal viewing experience. I will not benifit from any images that depict human misery or suffering.

I'm sure that the next few responses will be the usual attacks on my point of view. I will be accused of being afraid to show my images because I can't deal with critisism. I will be accused of being selfish, a snob, a self-rightous pompus jerk, etc. My response: knock yourselves out. I have to go take some pictures now.


p.s. I'll be keeping these pictures private as well!

snegron said:

People come to Florida every year for fishing and other water sports activities like parasailing. Many are lost at sea, eaten by aligators, or struck by lighning as they are parasailing. Should we tell these tourists not to participate in any of these activities?

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Ummm..... Yes?

(with acknowledgements to Carl Hiaasen)

Cheers,

R.

snegron said:

People come to Florida every year for fishing and other water sports activities like parasailing. Many are lost at sea, eaten by aligators, or struck by lighning as they are parasailing. Should we tell these tourists not to participate in any of these activities?

Also, the media photographers (no offense meant) are the ones who capture the human misery images after the destruction. It sells newspapers and raises ratings on TV. I remember having a conversation about this with a photojournalist friend of mine back in the early 80's. He mentioned that sadly the best thing that could happen to a photojournalist's career is that an airplane would plunge to the ground in front of him as he captured the images. Human misery sells for whatever twisted reason. I don't plan on selling any of my images because I am not setting out to capture images of human misery or destruction.

Like all of my personal work, images that I enjoy taking, are for my personal viewing pleasure. I don't show any of my personal work to my clients or anyone else because it is not work related. My personal photographs are on constant exhibition in my home. I do not need to share them with anyone because I do not need neither praise nor critisism. I shot the images for myself to be viewed by me. Each image I take has a very important meaning to me.

The tornado images will be the same. I have no need or desire to show them to anyone. They are for my personal viewing experience. I will not benifit from any images that depict human misery or suffering.

I'm sure that the next few responses will be the usual attacks on my point of view. I will be accused of being afraid to show my images because I can't deal with critisism. I will be accused of being selfish, a snob, a self-rightous pompus jerk, etc. My response: knock yourselves out. I have to go take some pictures now.


p.s. I'll be keeping these pictures private as well!

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Actually, I don't think any people get eaten by alligators in FL. Little yappy dogs do - and that's a good thing. Oh, and yes, there was that one-eyed golfer the other day who had to use his club to fend off an alligator as he (the golfer) tried to retrieve his ball from a water hazard. As to folks who parasail in T-storms - well, that's one reason why the Darwin Awards exist, isn't it?

On and yes, there are those who are just unlucky losers - like the guy who just got zapped by lightening that hit is iPod headphones as he jogged - but he's kind of a Darwin nominee anyway.

I think what offends Alex and some others here is not so much YOUR interest in chasing tornados. It is the fact that there are enough thrill-seeking folk like you out there such that a commercial industry has grown up to exploit a weather phenomenon that often brings death and havoc.

It's one thing to "report" on a catastrophe. It's another to make a "sport" of it.

copake_ham said:

I think what offends Alex and some others here is not so much YOUR interest in chasing tornados. It is the fact that there are enough thrill-seeking folk like you out there such that a commercial industry has grown up to exploit a weather phenomenon that often brings death and havoc.

It's one thing to "report" on a catastrophe. It's another to make a "sport" of it.

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Thank you George.

Alex, I don't if the Greensburg storm was one of them, but I've read about some people be ticketed for blocking roads during a storm. These groups were taking pictures and blocking the way of emergency vehicles and/or official storm watchers.

I think there were two incidents in western Kansas, which is really anywhere west of Salina for someone living in Shawnee county.

Having helped relatives dig out of the 66 Topeka storm, TV is plenty good enough for me to watch twisters.

Mike

mikebarger said:

Alex, I don't if the Greensburg storm was one of them, but I've read about some people be ticketed for blocking roads during a storm. These groups were taking pictures and blocking the way of emergency vehicles and/or official storm watchers.

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You're right Mike. Law Enforcement and the National Guard put an end to the rubber-necking right quick. There was a small group of looters that got in under false pretenses, and they got squashed real quick too. All of this was well-publicized to get the message out.

There were several stories of personal heroism. One guy who was quite literally just passing through has been credited for saving the people huddled in the C-store. He drove the last two miles into town with a busted-out windshield, due to the soft-ball size hail, and across several minor road obstacles, including a downed power poll (ahead of the funnel). The Dodge City Fire Department got there just as the funnel was leaving town, so they certainly made a horrendous dash down the highway in that wild stuff.

Haven't heard anything about the happy snappers helping out though.

I'm quite sure that the promoters of these tours marginalize the danger down to a trivia, but it is no trivia.

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Actually, quite the opposite. Tour groups point out the dangers more so, so that everyone can follow the rules in order to stay relatively safe.

tornados don't really care who you are, and once you pay your $$ and sign the waiver, the tour company don't really care either ...

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Actually, you are very wrong here. The Tour companies care about their reputation. Also most of the reputable companies thrive on repeat business. I know that almost half of the people that go on the tours have been before.

They went home and showed their friends, family, and neighbors their magnificent tornado pictures while the residents were trying to clean up and bury the dead. I wonder if any of those happy snappers in Southwest Kansas hefted a shovel full of debris in Greensburg or contributed a buck to the relief fund?

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Storm chasers provide much valued warning time by calling in reports to the National Weather Service to warn people BEFORE the storm hits. Many have helped people dig out and even helped with cleanup. Many also contribute to the Red Cross either directly or indirectly. Have you ever heard of the “Storms Of 2004” “Storms OF 2005”… They are chaser produced DVDs that 100% of profits goes to the Red Cross.
Please do some research before making statements that you don’t know about.

That's one side of the story, but Kansas law enforcement officials have been quoted that there have been issues of chasers blocking roads that local trained spotters or emergency equipment needed to use.

It's one thing to stop and pull off the road, another to stop on the road and set up shop.

People directly affected by the storm appreciate help, but from experience I can tell you, tourist get under your skin pretty quickly.

Mike

Ahhh, schaser, you are obviously a new member, with only one post, and that post is in this thread. Are you perhaps in the storm chasing business and are here defending that business? Or, do you have a genuine interest in analog photography and just happen to be an avid storm chaser as your member name implies?

Yes, I have heard of those reports. Most of those come from LOCALS who, in the law enforcement and media's eyes are storm chases. There are a few irresponsible chasers out there who do stop in the roads. The case that you are referring to was blown way out of proportion because the normally quiet county was suddenly crowded (compared to normal) and the law enforcement officer was stressed because of a tornado in the area. Most chase tour groups actually relieve the amount of cars on the road by providing one vehicle instead of a caravan of 10 vehicles.

Responsible chases will pull well off the road, stand away from traffic and not get in responders way.

The story that you mention, was blown way out of proportion. The officer had to go around a few cars. The were NEVER any other emergency vehicles that were stopped from getting anywhere. There was no need for them and the tornado was in open fields.

As with any line of work or hobby there are a few bad apples, but don't let that taint your view of the other 90% of responsible chasers out there.

schaser said:

Yes, I have heard of those reports. Most of those come from LOCALS who, in the law enforcement and media's eyes are storm chases. There are a few irresponsible chasers out there who do stop in the roads. The case that you are referring to was blown way out of proportion because the normally quiet county was suddenly crowded (compared to normal) and the law enforcement officer was stressed because of a tornado in the area. Most chase tour groups actually relieve the amount of cars on the road by providing one vehicle instead of a caravan of 10 vehicles.

Responsible chases will pull well off the road, stand away from traffic and not get in responders way.

The story that you mention, was blown way out of proportion. The officer had to go around a few cars. The were NEVER any other emergency vehicles that were stopped from getting anywhere. There was no need for them and the tornado was in open fields.

As with any line of work or hobby there are a few bad apples, but don't let that taint your view of the other 90% of responsible chasers out there.

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Does it not even matter to you at all that you have come on a site devoted to film photography and just taken advantage of our open membership system to post your "defense"?

Why are you even here?

Where is the Council? Isn't THIS kind of "defense" more important than protecting us from ourselves?