Tool for removing Retina's shutter retaining ring.

[Rumbo181]

I'm bringing to life a couple of folding Kodak Retinas. I've done it before several times, but this time I need to take apart the shutters to do a proper CLA for this particular cameras and fix them. I would need a tool for removing the shutter retaining ring -all of them have Synchro Compur shutters. Do you know where can I get one? I know that Chris Sherlock deals with this point in https://retinarescue.com/retainingringdimensions.html but I'm looking for any solution diffherent from a DIY tool, if I can avoid it. A ready made tool would be ideal.

Any idea? Do you know where can I get one? What's your experience dealing with this matter?

Thanks in Advance

 

[retina_restoration]

I had to have the tool custom machined, using Chris’s specs.
Once every couple of years, the tool shows up on eBay for sale, and unfortunately you missed the one that sold about a week ago. What turns up on eBay is almost always a custom made tool, not the original Kodak tool.

 

[Rumbo181]

Thank you for your prompt answer!

Yes, it's a shame I missed it. It's a search I try from time to time, but with few hopes of finding it; actually It was a surprise to know that recently there were any at all! Obviously my searching method -lack of- is not good enough.

Of course I took for granted that the original tool was not available a long time ago. As far as I know, Retinas wasn't sold in Spain so I suspect that Spanish repairmen had to use ingenuity instead of the original Kodak tool and maybe they made their own tools; if this is the case, they have to be somewhere; this is a line that I would like to research.

While that, I'll try to figure out how to make my own tool, what approach is simplest and best.

 

[Rumbo181]

By the way.

Not sold in Spain doesn't mean that there were any here!

Retinas were very well appreciated. This is a message I found handwritten in an address card inside a Retina case. The wise owner wrote "if you want to bring it back to me, tank you" (Si quiere devolvérmela, gracias).

 

[aconbere]

I’ve successfully removed a couple (from a 1 and a 1a) with just careful and tedious insertion of my lens spanner getting 1/2 turn and then doing it again.

 

[Rumbo181]

Thank you aconbere.

I’ve successfully removed a couple (from a 1 and a 1a) with just careful and tedious insertion of my lens spanner getting 1/2 turn and then doing it again.

So, you used "patience tool". Always advisable.

As long as the window frame height is shorter than the retaining ring diameter, I suppose you used this kind of curved wrench (with the curvature facing the other way round, of course), didn't you?

 

[gorbas]

Last December I bought it from Taiwanese seller rework-lens (https://ebay.us/m/lQSHie). Good luck!

 

[aconbere]

Thank you aconbere.



So, you used "patience tool". Always advisable.

As long as the window frame height is shorter than the retaining ring diameter, I suppose you used this kind of curved wrench (with the curvature facing the other way round, of course), didn't you?

View attachment 404825

yep that exactly.

 

[retina_restoration]

Thank you aconbere.



So, you used "patience tool". Always advisable.

As long as the window frame height is shorter than the retaining ring diameter, I suppose you used this kind of curved wrench (with the curvature facing the other way round, of course), didn't you?

View attachment 404825

WARNING!!
I guarantee you that the tool in the photo above will NOT be suitable for the Retina cameras. The arms and points of the tool (both ends) are far too large and shaped wrong to reach into the narrow space where the ring sits.
There might be spanners of this type by other manufacturers that have small enough points to reach into the narrow ring space, but I know for a fact that the tool shown here will not work. Those spanner arms won't even fit inside the film gate opening.

 

[F4U]

If indeed Chris Sherlock has made available the specifications and/or diagrams of this tool, then one can be duplicated using Freecad and 3D printed. Although i ave not made this particular tool, I HAVE made similar tools. Of course there's a chance that the retaining ring can be so tight that the tool would be broken before loosening. In that case, print another one and try again. You'd be surprised the high success rate I've enjoyed doing this.

 

[retina_restoration]

If indeed Chris Sherlock has made available the specifications and/or diagrams of this tool, then one can be duplicated using Freecad and 3D printed. Although i ave not made this particular tool, I HAVE made similar tools. Of course there's a chance that the retaining ring can be so tight that the tool would be broken before loosening. In that case, print another one and try again. You'd be surprised the high success rate I've enjoyed doing this.

If you print the tool out of metal, that might be OK, but I can tell you after removing several hundred Retina shutters, that the ring is on very tightly in 98% of the cameras, and a 3D printed plastic tool would break long before it shifted the ring.
It often takes as much force as I can humanly muster to get the ring to release from the shutter threads. I have occasionally had to take a hammer to it to break the grip of the ring. 3D printed tools won't bear up under such force.

 

[4season]

I've had success in recreating tools using FreeCAD software and a 3D printer, using combination of PLA plastic for the body of the tool, and steel wire for the pins or teeth which are subject to shearing force. Have not yet designed a tool specifically for removing a Retina IIa's shutter retainer ring, but I think a scaled up version of my usual miniature spanner will work, with the cylindrical body of the tool flattened in order to fit through the film gate.

 

[F4U]

I've had success in recreating tools using FreeCAD software and a 3D printer, using combination of PLA plastic for the body of the tool, and steel wire for the pins or teeth which are subject to shearing force. Have not yet designed a tool specifically for removing a Retina IIa's shutter retainer ring, but I think a scaled up version of my usual miniature spanner will work, with the cylindrical body of the tool flattened in order to fit through the film gate.

I agree with both of the last 2 posts. The likelihood of the tool breaking off the fine teeth that would engage the ring is practically certain. Which is why I would also design the tool so that some metal insert would actually be the engaging teeth to the ring. Such a thing might be fashioned with files and/or grinder. Yes, it would take time and patience. But many is the time when I ended up using al day to make a tool that actually took 2 seconds to get the job done once the tool was ready. Then you'd have a nice tool for doing other cameras. But ten in my own case, I've becone experienced enough in Freecad to have made quite a few highly specialized PLA 3D printed things that proved t be of great use.

 

[Rumbo181]

Last December I bought it from Taiwanese seller rework-lens (https://ebay.us/m/lQSHie). Good luck!

He's not listing anything similar by now, but sending him an e-mail can´t hurt.

WARNING!!
I guarantee you that the tool in the photo above will NOT be suitable for the Retina cameras. The arms and points of the tool (both ends) are far too large and shaped wrong to reach into the narrow space where the ring sits.
There might be spanners of this type by other manufacturers that have small enough points to reach into the narrow ring space, but I know for a fact that the tool shown here will not work. Those spanner arms won't even fit inside the film gate opening

Thank you for your warning. Maybe it could still be a useful tool, but I trust your experience and I'll follow your advice, so tool discarded for Retinas Retaining Ring.

I've had success in recreating tools using FreeCAD software and a 3D printer, using combination of PLA plastic for the body of the tool, and steel wire for the pins or teeth which are subject to shearing force. Have not yet designed a tool specifically for removing a Retina IIa's shutter retainer ring, but I think a scaled up version of my usual miniature spanner will work, with the cylindrical body of the tool flattened in order to fit through the film gate.

For me, the great take away is the idea of making tools with 3D printing for specific needs. It sounds pretty logic to add steel wire to reinforce it, but I think this is another level of craftsmanship. Of course I will be happy to see a picture of your miniature spanner.

And even with my limited experience only can agree with retina_restoration: Retinas Retaining Rings are pretty tight.

So, I think that just know I have to ways of action.

1) Look retired -or so- repairmen in Madrid and ask them what they used. Not simple, but doable, I think.
2) Find a mechanic with a lathe and ask him to make the tool for me. I have to find who, but maybe in a professional school, ... at any rate August is not the best month for it, however. (I could try to make it with a Dremel, but I know my limits).

Searching in eBay is a due diligence, but I'm afraid that hardly it is going to be successful.

And very open to learn more of making tools with 3D printing, I never thought about it before.

Thank you all for sharing your ideas, definitely I'm learning a lot with this thread.

 

[4season]

For me, the great take away is the idea of making tools with 3D printing for specific needs. It sounds pretty logic to add steel wire to reinforce it, but I think this is another level of craftsmanship. Of course I will be happy to see a picture of your miniature spanner.

Here you go. IIRC, the CAD image is actually for a a tool to fit a Hasselblad 500c, but my miniature spanners are all pretty similar except for spacing of the pins.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Well, I kknow I made a tool for doing this some time ago, but I am not certain if the attached photo is it?? I think the wider end is tabs for a compur #00 retain9ing ring. Cut-away for shutter body. Obviosuly lens is removed already. I seem to remember that the orientation of the notches meant that I didn't have to narrow down the tool to fit the short dimension of the film gate opening.

2mm by 25mm steel bar stock ground down.

Heck, if you think it would work for a Retina, let me know since I don't remember what is really is for!

Just thrown up for fun.

 

[F4U]

The deal with the Retina is that NO OTHER tool will work. It must be a dedicated tool made for this one purpose on these models. Reason being is that the frame opening is smaller than the ring you're trying to loosen. This means that the tool (which I have never seen) must have 2 opposing flat sides so that the business end of the tool can fit the ring, yet can also be no larger in diameter than the 24mm opening of the 24x36 frame opening. Freecad is a difficult program; you won't learn it well enough to do what you want on this project quickly. I've only studied it 3 years, and what I CAN'T do in it seems to grown exponentially compared to what I CAN do. Further, 3D printing has grave limitations as you are working with plastic, after all. Many times when I needed a tool or part that I knew where the plastic will not be suitable, required a complete re-engineering to make your design work. I only put the alternative out there, because in my own experience I've always found a way to get my parts to work, even f it took a week to make a tool or part that took 2 seconds to install or use. But like the man said: failure is not an option.