Too much yellow on trees...'

Sirius Glass

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If this photo was overexposed why is just the part where the sun’s intensity was the greatest that showed yellow and not the rest of the scene…?

The scene was impacted with the Fall colors hence the yellows.
 

Les Sarile

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I never used the EV key just the aperture ring…!

Only intended to show that each exposure was in full stops ranging from -4 to +7.

As a result, I know what I can expect to get from this film such as in this shot of Kodak Ektar 100. Came upon this scene and my averaging in camera meter suggested 1/60. However, I wanted to smooth out the water flow and needed 1 second and this is what I got. Straight up scan with very minor post work.

Kodak Ektar 100_14-08 by Les DMess, on Flickr
 

DREW WILEY

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I'd have to disagree with Les. Anything more than plus/minus 2 EV with Ektar is going to reproduce poorly, and will risk inevitable serious difficulty attempting to correct crossover issues in terms of hue cross-contamination. You've realistically got only about half a stop more latitude either direction than typical chrome film. Just bagging "something" recognizable on the film doesn't count. What is the actual quality and usability of it? And don't try telling me anything can be post-corrected in PS. It can't.

But that shot you just posted looks like it's in all in the shade anyway, and not a wide contrast range at all. And if you just did average metering, you don't know the actual extremes anyway.

What makes Ektar Ektar, and allows it to almost fit the same pair of shoes as chrome film in terms of clean hue reproduction is the correlation between its high contrast and hue saturation. Mess with either of those, and you get neither in this case. But if you prefer the look of Kodak Gold or Portra, just buy those films instead. Now I need to proceed to a more involved post.
 
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Les Sarile

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Disagreement is expected as I am only showing what I get with my workflow from capture to result. No doubt others may have different results and expectations.
 
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Disagreement is expected as I am only showing what I get with my workflow from capture to result. No doubt others may have different results and expectations.

As long as you don’t take umbrage…!
 
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I'm of the sticks and stones may break my bones but words would never hurt me generation . . .

BTW, you still haven't said how your scans were made . . .

The scans were made by Process One with a digital scanner…!
 

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I’m changing to Blue Moon for the optical printing they do…!
 

Alex Benjamin

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Yes, I misunderstood your suggestion when I first read it. I don't use these, so I got confused.
 

Alex Benjamin

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If by "good amount of exposure latitude" you mean detail, yes, it does.

But it doesn't in terms of color. Color shift between -1 and +1 is huge. The darker colors are almost undistinguishable at -1, and they lose much of their depth at +1. Moreover, and more to the OPs inquiry, the orange-tinted box at EV 0 becomes straight yellow at EV +1.
 
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Isn’t going from 0 to -1 on the EV scale the same as stopping down from f/4 to f5.6…?
Correction applied…!
 
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DREW WILEY

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This probably belongs on a different thread dedicated to advanced Ektar technique per se; but here goes anyway :

I try to avoid mixed-light situations when using Ektar. The most frequent dilemma is when one encounters deep blue shade in the same scene as warm open sunlight. For simple close-ups. you could employ a gold fill-reflector disc with moderation. But there is also an effective manner to deal with large or complex scenes. And it solves two problems at once - the annoying blueness of the low values themselves, as well as the challenge of excess overall contrast.

My trick involves a basic on-site film flashing option. I use a gel filter holder over the lens, via an appropriate threaded adapter. This contains four thin elements : 1) a thin 1'16 in thick piece of Sign White diffusion acrylic; 2) an 81A warming filter; 3) a supplementary .05 density magenta CC filter; and 4) a neutral density gel sufficient to achieve a net neutral density of the entire sandwich of .60, or exactly two EV (a 2-stop reduction), as measured with a densitometer or spot meter. Inexpensive Lee polyester gels are fine, since this is not an image-forming application.
The mild magenta element helps offset the greenish tinge of cheap ND filters, as well as shifting the 81A effect to a little more salmon effect. The are other possible combinations of warming filters and translucent diffusion material; but this is a fairly easy version to concoct.

I tuck this away in a the little round slip case to a collapsible fabric 18% gray disc, and keep that in my camera pack for intermittent use. Then when I've installed the diffuser/filter device over the lens, I read the exposure light of the scene in the normal manner, and set the correct f-stop and shutter speed, and final focus, just as if the gel filter frame wasn't in front of the lens at all. Then I hold the gray disc in front of that and pre-expose or technically "flash" the film. The fact that the filter packet amount to a .60 or two EV reduction from mid 18% means that the degree of exposure two stops below, or in Zonie lingo, at Zone III will be twice as much as it had been before, while at 1 stop below, only half as much, and at the midpoint or Zone V, only a negligible 1/4h extra. Therefore, this both opens up the deep shadows somewhat, reducing overall contrast, while at the same time, filling those shadows SELECTIVELY with some warmth, and offsetting the excess blue-cyan response of Ektar.

Of course, you need a camera or lens capable of double-exposures. But the elegance of this system is that, after you simply remove the gel sandwich in front of the lens, you use the same exposure and f-stop for taking the final photo itself. And although it involves a few extra minutes, it's nowhere near as time-consuming or potentially frustrating and futile as trying to post-correct
crossover issues. You can even precisely pre-flash the film in advance relative to specific lighting you anticipate shooting moving objects like wildlife in.

All this is fairly basic in principle and application, and more selective than simply resorting to stronger and stronger warming filters, which will affect the entire scene equally. But it does require a bit of practice in terms of estimating the final effect, which can of course be fine-tuned as needed in any given situation. But anyone who has experimented with flashing color film before knows not to overdo it. They key aspect is to have the same general light fall on the gray disc when you expose it as in the final shot itself.
 

DREW WILEY

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No, Nikon 2. It would be going from f/4 to f/5.6. Using f/8 would amount to a 2 EV reduction in exposure.
 

DREW WILEY

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Alex - I don't think many people even know what dye curve crossover implies once it sets in due to either overexposure or underexposure. So I like to use the analogy of multi-colored "mud", which once mixed together, sets up like concrete, and is almost impossible to get apart again. Yeah, there will be something there which people can try to post-saturate or shift; but it will be like saturated blaah dirt rather than the original clean set of hues which Ektar is capable of when properly used.

Anyone who has fooled around with watercolor pigments knows what happens when you mix complements across the color wheel - you don't preserve both, but get a brownish neutral, which can't be taken apart afterwards. This is analogous to what happens when dye peaks are forced through incorrect exposure to the point they are no longer separate, but partially overlap.
 
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No, Nikon 2. It would be going from f/4 to f/5.6. Using f/8 would amount to a 2 EV reduction in exposure.

That’s right, I meant going from f/4 to f/5.6.
I again misspoke…!
 
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To be completely honest here, I’d rather see the yellowing on the tress than to go all through the trouble you mentioned to correct it. It’s like shooting fall scenes in the middle of summer…!
 
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I’m only a professional photographer when the Nikon F2 is in my hands. When I put it down I’m just an amateur photographer…!
 

DREW WILEY

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Trouble correcting it? What trouble? In my long post, I was referring to dealing with mixed lighting scenes only. All you'd need to correct the K-temp lighting imbalance in most situations is a simple warming filter like a 1B skylight, KR1,5, or possibly 81A, - which takes what, maybe 30 seconds to attach? The late Ron Mowry (PE) of this forum told me he simply left a true skylight filter on the lens the whole time when shooting color neg film, and he didn't mean a colorless "lens protection" filter. It's especially important with Ektar, which isn't artificially warmed like most color neg films oriented to portrait applications.

Neutral grads are what amount to trouble. It's pretty rare the result doesn't look obvious and fake. There was even a local fellow whose name is on a brand of them; and I never saw a picture he himself made that way that looked other than kitchy and fake. Won't mention any names - let him rest in peace.

Otherwise, you've got me confused. My F2 is a Sinar 4X5. My Nikon is an FM2n. If had bought a Nikon F2 instead, and left it laying around, my Sinar F2 would have probably eaten it by now. It apparently helps to have the "M" and "n" on its pet collar to scare the big dogs away.
 
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Alex Benjamin

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I’m only a professional photographer when the Nikon F2 is in my hands. When I put it down I’m just an amateur photographer…!

We all are amateur photographers, over here. Just different degrees of knowledge and experience. And gaining experience is what is comes down to with a film like Ektar. You start by nailing exposure, you're more than half way there, but that's not always easy to do. The scene you shot is not an easy one—that not everything is easily photographable is a lesson that takes a while to learn. The most difficult part of photography, especially landscape, and especially with a film like Ektar, is learning to look at the scene carefully, attentively, and evaluating it before you put the camera to your eye.
 

DREW WILEY

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Or in my case, walking up to the camera. Since my learning curve with Ektar was based on 8X10 sheet film, every mistake was expensive and unforgotten. I have put my money where my mouth is. Now I largely understand this film, and recognize what it's especially good for, and what it's not so suitable for. But if you want clean crisp hues resembling chrome film, then be prepared to expose Ektar just as carefully and you'll be fine, with the added provision of correcting for scene color temperature using an appropriate warming filter in most cases. Simple advice, and easy to do; but I sure learned it the hard way.

Lately I've been printing Ektar on Fujiflex Supergloss, and many of the results are even better than Cibachrome back in its heyday. Vibrant, clean, hues all across the color wheel, with accurate neutrals, which most people can't believe came from a color neg film. There is still sometimes a bit of residual schizophrenia between blue and cyan, however, characteristic of Ektar.
 
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MattKing

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Isn’t going from 0 to -1 on the EV scale the same as stopping down from f/4 to f/8…?

No. The former is one stop, the latter is two stops.
 

Les Sarile

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Just part of the learning curve so I've used Kodak Ektar 100 for many mixed-light situations like this of the Hoover Dam at night using the Pentax LX on aperture priority autoexposure that lasted about 45 minutes. Pretty much as is from an autoexposure scan with no color correction.

Kodak Ektar 100_31-12 by Les DMess, on Flickr

For sure I know a lot less then I don't know but only to way to find out is by using it and seeing the results in my workflow from shot to result.
 
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Seems the yellow and blues show exaggeration like my photos…!
 
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