Toning warm tone paper without getting too brown/sepia color

snallan said:

As an aside on the possibility of bleaching before selenium toning, one would need to use a home brewed selenium toner, as the commercial versions are formulated with ammonium thiosulphate. So you will be fixing out the print even as you try to tone it!

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Partly true, but remember that while some fixing might be going on, at the same time all that silver is being attacked by the selenium toner. In fact, although I haven't tried it myself, the linked APUG thread makes clear it is in fact possible to do it with normal commercial selenium toner. Especially see the comments by snallan/Steve. He just recommends giving another 1/4 of a stop exposure to compensate for loss in highlight detail. And even than, you probably have to accept some highlight loss.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

By the way, I would be interested to see some results of pre-bleaching with selenium. If anyone has some examples somewhere on the internet or here on APUG, post a link.

Marco

Ah yes, that is a useful technique to slightly modify the highlight zones of the print, and the fixing effect can be overcome by the toning speed. I think I should have been clearer in my discussion of that (but if I remember rightly I was still recovering from a bout of some lurgy! ).

However, if the print is bleached significantly, the fixing could run far ahead of the toning and it is possible to lose a lot of density throughout the print, and end up with some very murky toner! A useful technique using full or extensive bleaching involves redevelopment in the same, or a different developer. This often affects how the silver in the print reacts with the toner, giving markedly different effects, I link to a couple of example prints from (there was a url link here which no longer exists) in that same thread.

hpulley said:

Well, then one may ask why are
you toning warmtone paper if you don't like how it tones?
Tone neutral or cold paper instead perhaps?

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IIRC the OP wishes for a sulfide treatment. He could though
achieve warm and sulfide results using a toner which offers
both; Nelson's Gold Toner. The minute amount of gold in
the toner acts to yield warm tones rather than sepia.

Nelson's is essentially a hypo alum toner but minus the
alum. Dan

snallan said:

A useful technique using full or extensive bleaching involves redevelopment in the same, or a different developer. This often affects how the silver in the print reacts with the toner, giving markedly different effects, I link to a couple of example prints from (there was a url link here which no longer exists) in that same thread.

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Thanks Steve, but unfortunately, due to the upgrade to the new APUG, these links are now dead and you get an error message trying to access them. This is true for all old links to the former gallery system. I have reported this issue to Sean, but it is probably quite a bit of work to restore it all.

Could you repost the correct links to the same images in the new APUG gallery system? The images should still be there (unless you yourself removed them at some point in time), just with different URL paths...

Marco

Thanks for that Marco, I hadn't realised that those links had died

I am just waiting to get around to renewing my subscription, then I shall sort out the new links.

I've had a lot of luck printing Ilford MGWT in Kodak Selectol; the results are similar to what you're looking for: a nice, creamy warm tonality that nudges up the blacks and makes the whites resonate. 4 minute development in a standard working solution, gentle agitation.

I happened across old cans of Selectol powder, but its my understanding that the formulary selectol works just as well.