Toning - Rapid v Sodium Thiosulphate Fixers

[Martin Aislabie]

Guys, I am once again somewhat confused :rolleyes:

When Toning or Bleaching a print there seems to be a preference for Sodium Thiosulphate Fixers over Rapid (Ammonium Thiosulphate) Fixers.

I have read and re-read Tim Rudmans’ excellent Toning book but cannot see an explanation as to why there would be a difference.

I realise I am trying to be lazy but I have lots of Rapid Fixer in easy to use liquid form and will have to make up the Sodium Fixer from powder kits.

Can anyone offer an explanation as to why there is a difference in the end result of a fixed print :confused:

Thanks

Martin

 

[markbau]

I tried many different toning techniques about 10 years ago, including many from the Rudman book and have always used the Ilford Rapid fix method for fiber papers with excellent results. In fact the only time I ever got strange toning results was when I tried the Kodak 2 bath fixing method for about 2 months, after which I went back to the Ilford rapid toning method. Sorry I can't explain anything but these are my experiences.

Mark

 

[Ian Grant]

Can't think of any reason why Sodium Thiosulphate should be better, I've used Hypam for about 35 years (or Ilford Rapid Fixer) and used to do a lot of toning of all types. It is important that the print is fixed properly, by that I mean no residual silver/thiosulphate complexes left in the paper particularly with FB papers prior to washing and toning, but 2 bath fixing takes care of those issue.

Ian

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I think the preference should be for non-hardening fixers over hardening fixers for toning, and maybe when the sources you read were written, the predominant rapid fixers tended to be hardening fixers, though with Kodak Rapid Fixer and others, you can just leave the hardener out. If a print has been fixed in a hardening fixer, one option before toning is to refix in a plain hypo bath, so that may also explain what you've read. I see no reason not to use a non-hardening rapid fixer before toning.

 

[Ian Grant]

Another option if a hardening fixer has been used is a soak in 1 1-2% Sodium Carbonate solution which helps re-swell the emulsion. Hardening can cause patchy uneven toning.

Ian

 

[Martin Aislabie]

Can't think of any reason why Sodium Thiosulphate should be better, I've used Hypam for about 35 years (or Ilford Rapid Fixer) and used to do a lot of toning of all types. It is important that the print is fixed properly, by that I mean no residual silver/thiosulphate complexes left in the paper particularly with FB papers prior to washing and toning, but 2 bath fixing takes care of those issue.

Ian

Thanks Ian - that’s good enough for me

I am careful about fixer capacity, HCA baths and washing to remove the "nasties"

Martin

 

[Martin Aislabie]

Another option if a hardening fixer has been used is a soak in 1 1-2% Sodium Carbonate solution which helps re-swell the emulsion. Hardening can cause patchy uneven toning.

Ian

Ian, I use regular Hypam, so hardening isn't an issue

Thanks

Martin

 

[dancqu]

When Toning or Bleaching a print there seems to be
a preference for Sodium Thiosulphate Fixers over Rapid
(Ammonium Thiosulphate) Fixers.

I have read and re-read Tim Rudmans’ excellent Toning
book but cannot see an explanation as to why there
would be a difference. Martin

Likely a matter of safety. Ammonium compounds can
react dangerously with some chemicals. Sodium, an
eons gone by preference which persists. Dan