Toning for deep neutral blacks

Marc Leest

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2003
Messages
504
Location
Hasselt, Bel
Format
Multi Format
Hi, I am looking for deep neutral blacks - kind of AA look.
What is the best combo to use:
I have in stock:
Paper:
ILford FB and FB WT, Kentmere Fineprint VC FB
Chem:
Cooltone developer, Warmtone developer, Fotospeed selenium toner.

Thx for any advice, Marc
 

Ronald Moravec

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2005
Messages
1,355
Location
Downers Grov
I would make some 4x4 prints on the Ilford FB and Kentmere and tone with selenium.

Use the cooltone dev if that is all you have. Other wise I find Dektol makes a more neutral black than Bromophine.

Warmtone paper and dev are not to be considered for this.
 

Roger Hicks

Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
4,895
Location
Northern Aqu
Format
35mm RF
Mercury toners were traditional -- old books speak of 'engraving blacks' -- but they are so horrifyingly toxic and environmentally unfeiendly that I do not know of anyone who has ever used them. Not especially useful information but perhaps of passing interest.

Cheers,

Roger
 

jim appleyard

Subscriber
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Messages
2,415
Format
Multi Format
I wonder if Ethol LPD would fill your needs? IIRC, it changes the tone of a print by varying dilution. I don't know if it is available in Belgium; it may be expensive to have it shipped to you.
 

noseoil

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2003
Messages
2,887
Location
Tucson
Format
Multi Format
Marc, one thing which comes to mind is the use of the light meter. If you have worked out a system which allows you to place a portion of the scene at zone three, look around next time and see what will naturally fall into zone one. If it is a small portion, which doesn't require detail for a decent image, let if drop into the bottom zones and see how you like it. We get so caught up on proper exposure and development sometimes that we forget about the needs for pure black and white in a print to make it look good.

That having been said, dektol & selenium gets my vote. tim
 

Lachlan Young

Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
4,968
Location
Glasgow
Format
Multi Format
jim appleyard said:
I wonder if Ethol LPD would fill your needs? IIRC, it changes the tone of a print by varying dilution. I don't know if it is available in Belgium; it may be expensive to have it shipped to you.
Click to expand...

You could try Retrophotographic or Fotoimpex or Mr Cad as they all seem to stock it - be warned the standard can makes up 1 US Gallon (3.8 litres).

Hope this helps,

Lachlan
 

Donald Miller

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
6,230
Format
Large Format
I can't speak to the materials that you have on hand. I like the neutral and deep blacks that I get with JandC Nuance and the MAS Amidol formula.
 

Ole

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Sep 9, 2002
Messages
9,245
Location
Bergen, Norway
Format
Large Format
The best blacks I've seen were on Bergger Fine Art, developed in Ansco 130 and toned in KRST. The tonality doesn't change at all, but the blacks get a lot "deeper".

There are many other papers with higher Dmax, but none other with such deep velvety blacks.
 

Les McLean

Subscriber
Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Messages
1,606
Location
Northern Eng
Format
Multi Format
I see you have Cooltone developer and Ilford Warmtone paper. If the dev is the new Ilford Cooltone use it with Warmtone paper and it will produce good rich neutral blacks which when toned in selenium will increase in contrast.
 

nworth

Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
2,228
Location
Los Alamos,
Format
Multi Format
First, select a paper with dark, neutral blacks (Polymax, Oriental Seagull G, etc.). Next, select a developer known for neutral tones (Dektol, amidol, etc.). For a toner, avoid selenium, which warms the print. The traditional toner to give and maintain that neutral black look is Kodak GP-1, Gold Protective Solution. It works well with cold, neutral tone papers, and it is easy to mix. Although gold is expensive, you use so little in the toner that the per print cost is reasonable. It is also unsurpassed for archival toning on cool tone prints.
 

tim rudman

Member
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
694
Format
Medium Format
Marc Leest said:
Hi, I am looking for deep neutral blacks Marc
Click to expand...

Try using gold toner rather than Se. Don't take it too far at first as it may go too blue - this will be more apparent when it dries. You can always go back for a secong dip later. Some papers (e g Cooltone) respond quite slowly to gold toning.
Alternatively MGIV gives a really deep deep blue black after a pot dichromate bleach and redev in a cool tone developer.
Tim
 

Ole

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Sep 9, 2002
Messages
9,245
Location
Bergen, Norway
Format
Large Format
Wolfgang Moersch' Carbon toner also seems capable of producing anything from blue-black to brown.

I haven't used this myself, but I probably will try it when I've used up my old bottle of old Viradon. In another ten years, that is...
 

Claire Senft

Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
3,239
Location
Milwaukee, W
Format
35mm
If the blacks are at or approaching the paper's dmax it will be very difficult to see a lack of neutrality in such a deep tone. Lighter blacks and greys will more readily show a color cast that the eye can see. I would be concerned that the blacks are not printed or toned so deeply that shadow detail is diminished. Just barely black enough to give depth to the photo is what I strive for.
 
OP
OP

Marc Leest

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2003
Messages
504
Location
Hasselt, Bel
Format
Multi Format
Hello,

Many thanks for the suggestions. I will post some of the pictures when ready, eventually comparing the techniques suggested.
@ole: the pictures were all taken in Norway

M.

One question: when using gold toner, should I use the neutral paper or the warmtone paper ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…