Toning for deep neutral blacks

[Marc Leest]

Hi, I am looking for deep neutral blacks - kind of AA look.
What is the best combo to use:
I have in stock:
Paper:
ILford FB and FB WT, Kentmere Fineprint VC FB
Chem:
Cooltone developer, Warmtone developer, Fotospeed selenium toner.

Thx for any advice, Marc

 

[Ronald Moravec]

I would make some 4x4 prints on the Ilford FB and Kentmere and tone with selenium.

Use the cooltone dev if that is all you have. Other wise I find Dektol makes a more neutral black than Bromophine.

Warmtone paper and dev are not to be considered for this.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Mercury toners were traditional -- old books speak of 'engraving blacks' -- but they are so horrifyingly toxic and environmentally unfeiendly that I do not know of anyone who has ever used them. Not especially useful information but perhaps of passing interest.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[jim appleyard]

I wonder if Ethol LPD would fill your needs? IIRC, it changes the tone of a print by varying dilution. I don't know if it is available in Belgium; it may be expensive to have it shipped to you.

 

[noseoil]

Marc, one thing which comes to mind is the use of the light meter. If you have worked out a system which allows you to place a portion of the scene at zone three, look around next time and see what will naturally fall into zone one. If it is a small portion, which doesn't require detail for a decent image, let if drop into the bottom zones and see how you like it. We get so caught up on proper exposure and development sometimes that we forget about the needs for pure black and white in a print to make it look good.

That having been said, dektol & selenium gets my vote. tim

 

[Lachlan Young]

I wonder if Ethol LPD would fill your needs? IIRC, it changes the tone of a print by varying dilution. I don't know if it is available in Belgium; it may be expensive to have it shipped to you.

You could try Retrophotographic or Fotoimpex or Mr Cad as they all seem to stock it - be warned the standard can makes up 1 US Gallon (3.8 litres).

Hope this helps,

Lachlan

 

[Donald Miller]

I can't speak to the materials that you have on hand. I like the neutral and deep blacks that I get with JandC Nuance and the MAS Amidol formula.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I'll second Donald's suggestion that Amidol gives excellent blacks.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Ole]

The best blacks I've seen were on Bergger Fine Art, developed in Ansco 130 and toned in KRST. The tonality doesn't change at all, but the blacks get a lot "deeper".

There are many other papers with higher Dmax, but none other with such deep velvety blacks.

 

[Les McLean]

I see you have Cooltone developer and Ilford Warmtone paper. If the dev is the new Ilford Cooltone use it with Warmtone paper and it will produce good rich neutral blacks which when toned in selenium will increase in contrast.

 

[nworth]

First, select a paper with dark, neutral blacks (Polymax, Oriental Seagull G, etc.). Next, select a developer known for neutral tones (Dektol, amidol, etc.). For a toner, avoid selenium, which warms the print. The traditional toner to give and maintain that neutral black look is Kodak GP-1, Gold Protective Solution. It works well with cold, neutral tone papers, and it is easy to mix. Although gold is expensive, you use so little in the toner that the per print cost is reasonable. It is also unsurpassed for archival toning on cool tone prints.

 

[tim rudman]

Hi, I am looking for deep neutral blacks Marc

Try using gold toner rather than Se. Don't take it too far at first as it may go too blue - this will be more apparent when it dries. You can always go back for a secong dip later. Some papers (e g Cooltone) respond quite slowly to gold toning.
Alternatively MGIV gives a really deep deep blue black after a pot dichromate bleach and redev in a cool tone developer.
Tim

 

[Ole]

Wolfgang Moersch' Carbon toner also seems capable of producing anything from blue-black to brown.

I haven't used this myself, but I probably will try it when I've used up my old bottle of old Viradon. In another ten years, that is...

 

[Claire Senft]

If the blacks are at or approaching the paper's dmax it will be very difficult to see a lack of neutrality in such a deep tone. Lighter blacks and greys will more readily show a color cast that the eye can see. I would be concerned that the blacks are not printed or toned so deeply that shadow detail is diminished. Just barely black enough to give depth to the photo is what I strive for.

 

[Marc Leest]

Hello,

Many thanks for the suggestions. I will post some of the pictures when ready, eventually comparing the techniques suggested.
@ole: the pictures were all taken in Norway

M.

One question: when using gold toner, should I use the neutral paper or the warmtone paper ?