The bottom row is selenium.
They're all on one row for me. How can we identify which image is which print?
In some cases, the eggplant hue of deeper selenium toning I personally also find attractive, but many people dislike the magenta coloration.
None of your prints show a good dmax, however. The blacks are all pretty weak.
I disagree that fomaspeed doesn't respond well to selenium toning... In some cases, the eggplant hue of deeper selenium toning I personally also find attractive, but many people dislike the magenta coloration. You toned these pretty far, it seems.
The papers will respond differently (and generally less strongly) to toning if you develop them out further. You end up with bigger silver particles that are less receptive to toning.
Are you talking about selenium?
Yes, indeed.So if I fix the Dmax with a stronger developer I'm going to lose what toning I currently have?
EDIT: Apparently for some viewers the images are all on one row. I have re-labeled them so they can be identified.
I have been experimenting with sepia and selenium toning with the cheapest RC papers in the market and I wanted to share my impressions:
(1) Inkpress MultiTone responds A LOT more strongly to sepia toning than Arista / Foma.
I don't know if Arista paper is merely a rebrand of Fomaspeed, but it's made by Foma, so it should at least be "similar". In the images below, the left column (railway sign) are Inkpress MultiTone RC Pearl while the right column (building) are Arista EDU Ultra RC Semi-Matte.The top row are split-tones with sepia and selenium.
I don't know if my cellphone photos convey the difference, but in person it's unmistakable. MultiTone responds immediately to sepia and quickly acquires a strong sepia tone, whereas for Arista/Foma, I fought and fought and fought and could not get it to actually look sepia. I left the print in the bleach until both the highlights and midtones were gone and the shadows starting to disappear too, and yet when they came back in the sepia bath they just look "meh".
(2) Neither paper responds well to selenium toning.
The bottom row is selenium.If you hold a toned and untoned print side by side and squint really hard you can detect an increase in Dmax and a slight shift in tone. It is easier to see with the Arista/Foma paper, but the difference is small enough that I'm not sure whether it's the paper or whether the photo with the building is just better suited for selenium, or whether my mind is interpreting the darker sky as "more selenium".
I definitely want to try toning with better paper. When my current stack of RC paper starts to run low, I'm planning to order (a) Ilford RC Cooltone and (b) some FB paper to try.
Honestly, I'm quite disappointed with Arista/Foma RC paper. It costs twice as much as MultiTone, yet performs much worse with sepia, is not clearly better for selenium, and in another recent thread we found that it falls apart a lot more easily when confronted with a poor developer.
As a side-note, I think the photos on the right are sharper. I hope they are. They were taken with a better camera (Pentax 17 vs Olympus PEN) with a sharp lens and modern coatings and more precise focus, and were enlarged with a better lens (Nikkor vs Spiratone). Recently there was a forum discussion about why the pictures on the left appear a bit soft. Some of the proposed culprits were the camera lens and the enlarger lens.
Left: Inkpress MultiTone RC Pearl
Right: RC Semi-Matte
Top: Split Tone (Sepia + Selenium)
Bottom: Selenium Tone
Inkpress MultiTone + Split Tone
View attachment 403605
Arista (Foma) + Split Tone
View attachment 403606
Inkpress MultiTone + Selenium Tone
View attachment 403607
Arista (Foma) + Selenium Tone
View attachment 403608
But toners aren't necessarily meant to be applied like a heavy hammer. Yes it depends what you like.... but many papers have characteristics that get masked by heavy toning. That's my opinion anyway.... & selenium toner....for example can add something without totally overpowering an image.... See how your tastes change over time.
If it is any help,dcy, the only tíme I have seen prints toned in selenium have this quite pronounced pink look was in an Ilford video on its selenium toner diluted at 1+3 which is extremely strong.Just out of interest what was your dilution in the selenium prints you did ?
dcy..... it's hard to tell.... on my screen both images show a pinkish cast, but there is more contrast in the right hand image.
Like anything else in photography..... the 10,000 hrs rule applies. ....& in the future....you'll see things you don't see now.....that's part of the journey.
Most general purpose, relatively low cost RC papers have engineered into them a whole bunch of enforced consistency. That way they give similar results in a wide variety of darkrooms, to a wide variety of users.
That built in consistency tends to make them relatively resistant to toning.
You seem to have picked two papers that show that resistance.
It is the interaction between the paper makeup and the toner that gives you the result. And you really can't apply experience gained with one paper to predict how another might behave.
It is part of the sometimes frustrating unpredictable fun of toning!
A change in type of developer often has some effect as well.
Same dilution. I used 1+3, both because I saw it in that video and because I wanted to make sure I'd see something.
I use Multitone for 1st generation work prints, which I seldom bother to tone. I do use selenium with Foma RC for the archival value, not to change tone, and with Foma FB when I want to change the tone. I have not use ILford paper in a very long time, 20 years or longer, but although expensive and sometimes hard to find in the U.S I find that Berrger tones really well.
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