Toners on Motion Pictures?

Tom Taylor · Aug 15, 2014

Did Hollywood ever use toners on their B&W movies?

Thomas

AgX · Aug 16, 2014

Toning as well as Tinting was applied at movies.

There were even specific manuals by Agfa and Kodak on that matter.

Alex Muir · Aug 16, 2014

I have just made my first 8mm movie in years. I used Kodak film called 7363 (I think). It was rated at 10asa. I have wondered, since making this film, if it could be toned. It has a nice look to it anyway, but I did wonder about sepia for a future film. My concern would be the potential loss of detail and increased contrast. I have to say that this film gave a better tonal range than expected. I don't think it was originally intended for use in camera. I believe it was for copying, or some similar process.
Alex

Dr Croubie · Aug 16, 2014

Wizard of Oz, Intro, Sepia. To good effect to contrast with the colour of the land of Oz.

ic-racer · Aug 16, 2014

Alex Muir said:
I have just made my first 8mm movie in years. I used Kodak film called 7363 (I think). It was rated at 10asa. I have wondered, since making this film, if it could be toned. It has a nice look to it anyway, but I did wonder about sepia for a future film. My concern would be the potential loss of detail and increased contrast. I have to say that this film gave a better tonal range than expected. I don't think it was originally intended for use in camera. I believe it was for copying, or some similar process.
Alex

How or where did you get that film perforated for 8mm?

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Aug 16, 2014

ic-racer said:
How or where did you get that film perforated for 8mm?

Foma R 100 Regular 8 , I bought it last year for my bolex. Its been sold via their web page and cheap.

Tom Taylor · Aug 16, 2014

I thought so. While preparing dinner yesterday I had the kitchen TV on the "getTV" channel and I noticed a beautiful brown tone on an otherwise unremarkable B&W film from...probably in the 40's. I found myself watching part of it solely to admire the photography.

Thomas

Alex Muir · Aug 16, 2014

ic-racer said:
How or where did you get that film perforated for 8mm?

I bought it from a company called Gauge Film (www.gaugefilm.co.uk) who are based in England. It was perforated for Standard (Regular)8. They do a service including process, or you can buy film alone. The process turnaround was quite long for B&W, but much quicker for colour. They do a selection of B&W reversal including Tri-X, 7363 and Orwo Un54. They also do colour reversal and negative, and a good selection in Super8. The processing was to a high standard. My only gripe with the film was it's tendency to spring off the reel. This isn't a problem if you are aware of it. I think it must be to do with either the type of base material, or perhaps the stock comes off a very large roll, and is less 'curled' when it is put on the 25 feet reels. I will definitely use their service again, probably for this film which is, relatively, inexpensive.

Alex.

cmacd123 · Aug 16, 2014

Both toning and tinting were common in the Silent era, Including some stamping and hand painting operations where they would daub say red dye on the image of a fire. More or less stopped with the introduction of Sound.

Recent 35mm prints of B&W movies were generally made on Colour Stock, as the heat would cause problems for the Silver image, while a dye image allows the Infrared to pass right through.

Oxleyroad · Aug 17, 2014

Substrates were also tinted.

David Brown · Aug 17, 2014

I saw the original, silent "Phantom of the Opera" last year. Each scene was a slightly different monochrome color, except where the phantom appeared wearing his cape, and the cape was bright red! It was allegedly very startling at the time.

kr236rk · Sep 19, 2014

Fascinating thread Where can you obtain toner for using on b/w film today please? I don't know much about chemistry but presumably both film emulsion and photographic papers include silver (nitrate?) in their composition, so commercially available [as in Fotospeed] print toner can theoretically be applied to processed film as well?

Many thanks

Gerald C Koch · Sep 19, 2014

I remember watching an old sci-fi film about a mission to mars. The film was in BW and when they got to mars the film was tinted red to simulate the vistas of the red planet.

georgegrosu · Sep 20, 2014

I visited about 10 years ago the Archive of films and Laboratory Barrandov from Prague.
People here have told us that for the old film b&w an engineer made a patent.
Each scene of the film to be colored differently (monochrome ).
The print was made on color positive film.
The patent was made ~1960.
I think the patent was made to copy subtractive.

George

Alex Muir · Sep 20, 2014

kr236rk said:
Fascinating thread Where can you obtain toner for using on b/w film today please? I don't know much about chemistry but presumably both film emulsion and photographic papers include silver (nitrate?) in their composition, so commercially available [as in Fotospeed] print toner can theoretically be applied to processed film as well?

Many thanks

I use Foma sepia toner for B&W prints. I wouldn't use it on my original B&W cine film without a test. You could try it first on some 35mm negatives to see how it works. I intend doing that, and will post here if and when I do. The process is very straightforward. You mix up bleach and toner baths. The print, or film, is bleached first, washed and then toned, all in daylight and at room temp. Apologies if you are already familiar with sepia toning. I got my kit from the online supplier The Darkroom in the UK. I'm sure other people stock it. There wouldn't be much point in toning negatives, other than for permanence. The possibilities for creating unusual effects in movies, however, are of interest. You would almost certainly be editing your original material to produce a completed film. This process would allow selective toning of individual scenes. Different toners could be applied to different scenes as mentioned earlier regarding some commercial productions. Let us know how you get on if you give it a go.
Alex.

Toners on Motion Pictures?

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