Toner Question

[teejay]

Hi - So today I had my first "proper" go trying to get a silver gelatin print to a level I'd be happy to mat and hang up. So I printed a couple of transparencies out from some recent 4 x 5 scans and contact printed them. All went well. I then decided to try toning one of them in Moersch copper toner - took a couple of goes to get that right and ended up with a print I thought "Hey that's not half bad". Waited for it to dry and started to mat it. That's when I noticed that the toner wasn't "in" the paper but was on top it - i.e. you can smear it off if you try with a cloth. Anyhows, I finished the matting and hung it on the wall - not sure how long that look will last.

I'm using Kentmere RC paper.

My sequence was Expose / Dev / Stop / Fix / Tone / Wash

So I guess I need to know where I messed up !

Thanks.

 

[Harry Stevens]

No expert myself but do you not bleach the print before the tone stage.....?

 

[MattKing]

AFAIK, copper toning requires you to:
1) wash prints fully first;
2) bleach prints before toning; and then
3) tone.

At least that is what Tim Rudman says.
What do the instructions say?

 

[Lachlan Young]

The Moersch instructions are here

It sounds a lot like the toner exhausted & the copper precipitate has stuck to the surface.

 

[teejay]

Hey guys thanks for responses - much appreciated.

Harry & Matt - yeah I'm gonna try bleaching next time and see where I get - I've got a couple of toning books on order (although not the Tim Rudman one unfortunately as that's super pricey )

Lachlan - you could well be right - although it was a fresh batch I mixed up I did open the bottles probably around two years ago when I first used them, although they've been sealed since then.

Anyhows, so much more rewarding then pressing "Print" and spitting out to an inkjet - even when you do cock it up !

 

[Bruce Osgood]

I've heard there is an additional step needed and that is after toning and wash a "fixer" and wash step is necessary. I don't know this is true as I've no experience with this.

 

[Lachlan Young]

In essence, you mix bleach and toner just before use & it effectively bleaches and tones simultaneously.

If you go over 2 mins toning time, you need to refix & re-wash etc.

Finally, the toner is very short lived once mixed into working solution.

 

[Rudeofus]

I have had my fair struggles with copper red toner, not the product you use, but some self made concoctions. While I still haven't reached any level of experience which would allow me to create consistent and repeatable results, allow me to share some of my experiences:

1. Copper red toner requires no bleach, in fact it needs to bleach the print itself in order to form that red compound. Feel free to experiment with bleaching before toning, but the official method involves no bleach before toning.
2. As copper red toner gets older (which can mean several dozen minutes) or reused, it will tend to create red precipitate on top of your print. This precipitate will wash off. If you want to avoid the hassle, mix fresh.
3. Copper red toner eats density and contrast like crazy. I would not use a normal looking B&W print, copper tone it and expect good results. Start with a print that is very dark and very contrasty and see what happens.
   
4. Make sure your prints are properly washed before you tone them. Since hours fly by like crazy during dark room work, especially when toning is done, too, one is inclined to cut washing cycles short - big mistake!

 

[Rudeofus]

PS: If you don't like the results of red toning for whatever reason, you can throw the seemingly wasted print into your developer tray - and it will come right back! After a proper wash you can retry toning until it works as you want.

 

[Harry Stevens]

Here's my favourite video on basic toning.

When I do my next bulk chemical order I am going to add a serpia box of toner to my list.