Today it was so cold in Los Angeles that

smithdoor · Dec 8, 2013

This is California we never till any it get cold here
I live in the center we got in to the teens here and no know it rain here too.
Oh yes never till about how cold the water to swing
WE ONLY say it is sunny all day.

Dave

Sirius Glass said:
Today it was so cold in Los Angeles that
we had to close the windows
I put up the top on my convertible
I saw people wearing socks with their sandals
I bought a sweater today
I took the ice out of my coffee

Truzi · Dec 8, 2013

lxdude said:
Water is used because it is universal, and pure water is used because it is easy to make through distillation. Brine must be of a specified salt, and the salt must be itself pure, both of which complicate things needlessly. Then the brine would have to be fully saturated to be consistent, and that varies with temperature- more complication.
Elevation of course lowers the boiling point, but that can be corrected mathematically.

I don't see how using a known, consistent, reproducible reference is arbitrary, except that any type of measurement can be considered arbitrary on some level.

I am only disagreeing with the use of "arbitrary." Otherwise, I quite agree with you.

An aside: living in a country that primarily uses Fahrenheit and other non-metric scales, I obviously have difficulty interpreting the more logical measures in day-to-day life because of what I am used to, familiar with, and exposed to. I do, however, find metrics far more logical. When reading scientific studies (which I sometimes do for fun), or mixing photographic chemicals (I suppose also recreationally), metrics are easier for me. If you tell me the outside temperature in F, I know if I consider it comfortable. When someone in Europe posts the temperature in C, I have to cross-reference. I would be fine if the U.S. finally completed its conversion to metric, though would feel nostalgic for what I'd grown up with.

The best way to do things is, as you say, to use a known, consistent, reproducible reference. The Fahrenheit scale (and others) have also done this. However, there is nothing written by any deity on any stone tablets or flaming letters on a mountain stating what that reference must be, or what the 0 and 100 points must be (or whether those numbers must be used at all). It had to be standardized on something, and what was chosen was abundant and _easy_ (relative to other choices - though I'm sure a chemist would prove me wrong). Water should be "pure," etc., to be consistent; and "pure" water is not universally available on this planet without complicating things.

Absolute zero is less arbitrary (though still theoretical) - it is the cessation of molecular activity and has nothing to do with what kind of molecules we standardize on. Of course, one could argue it's still arbitrary, lol.
Just because it is now a standard, and we (presumably) agree a good and logical one, does not mean it is not arbitrary, that is all.

Tangentially related to onanism, they had statuary back when these scales were created, so 0 could have just as easily had something to do with a brass monkey. Actually, there are circles around here where the brass-monkyometer does seem to be an unofficial standard.

lxdude · Dec 8, 2013

Truzi,

I am fairly certain that if one cannot obtain pure water, one (or more than one, for that matter--one is so arbitrary) is not going to be concerned about establishing an exact measure of temperature which can be applied to an agreed-upon scale of measure. That is, if one (or more) is in the Sahara desert or Death Valley in mid-summer without a supply of water to distill into pure using the the sun's heat and a few simple items, the terms "hot", "$#@% hot", and so on through to "$%@&!!# HOT!!!", and finally "gack", are sufficient for the purpose of quantifying the amount of heat present.

As for measures of cold: one good thing about cold snaps around here, being that SoCal brass monkeys are no hardier than we SoCal people are, is that for a few days the meth-heads forage their fix-funding metallic recyclables off the ground instead of by stealing electrical wire, manhole covers, and bronze plaques. In fact, it is now difficult to use a brass-ball-on-the-ground count to determine coldness-- they have tweaked the scale, so to speak.

lxdude · Dec 8, 2013

VaryaV said:
LOL - this thread is hysterical!

I see you guys are in prime form! Thank god things haven't changed!

Wow! Been a while. First Walrath returns, and now Varya. Cool!

Sirius Glass · Dec 8, 2013

Basically all the discussion about the basis for the standards is bogus since none of us will go back to the standards to get the temperature. Instead we will check a thermometer or a brass monkey.

ME Super · Dec 8, 2013

Truzi said:
Absolute zero is less arbitrary (though still theoretical) - it is the cessation of molecular activity and has nothing to do with what kind of molecules we standardize on. Of course, one could argue it's still arbitrary, lol.
Just because it is now a standard, and we (presumably) agree a good and logical one, does not mean it is not arbitrary, that is all.

Imagine if we standardized on Kelvins for our temperatures. "Throw another log on the fire, folks. It's gonna be a cold one with a low near 270."

At the moment, it's cold and we've had snow flurries today in Central Illinois. Supposed to end up with about an inch of snow. Our low tonight is supposed to be 20 F (or -7 C or 266 K).

Sirius Glass · Dec 8, 2013

Frankly I am somewhat more partial to degrees Rankine to degrees Kelvin although I tend to use degrees Kelvin more frequently.

lxdude · Dec 8, 2013

I thought degrees Rankine was a measure of smell.

lxdude · Dec 8, 2013

And "degrees Kelvin" is no longer used- "Kelvins" is the proper term.

Sirius Glass · Dec 8, 2013

lxdude said:
And "degrees Kelvin" is no longer used- "Kelvins" is the proper term.

I work with several people whose first names are Kevin, therefore degrees Kelvin avoids confusion.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 8, 2013

Is it still cold in Los Angeles?

Sirius Glass · Dec 8, 2013

Yes, it is "58°F and feels like 63°F Sunny" and that is not a typo!

Its terrible! People actually have to wear sweaters!

lxdude · Dec 8, 2013

Sirius Glass said:
I work with several people whose first names are Kevin, therefore degrees Kelvin avoids confusion.

To a degree..

Sirius Glass · Dec 8, 2013

Sirius Glass said:
Yes, it is "58°F and feels like 63°F Sunny" and that is not a typo!

Its terrible! People actually have to wear sweaters!

This is what it said:

Sirius Glass · Dec 8, 2013

There are hungry people in Santa Monica. So you kids should eat everything on your plate including the liver and tofu.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 8, 2013

Sirius Glass said:
Yes, it is "58°F and feels like 33°F Sunny" and that is not a typo!

Its terrible! People actually have to wear sweaters!

I was in Iceland in July 2001. It must have been about 50 degrees out and kids were running around in shorts and t-shirts.
Then I see online weather reports from California with news reporters wearing coats, scarves, and hats when it drops below 50.
Are you guys a little weak out there in Southern California? Or, more than a little, perhaps? Doesn't that bother you?

BrianShaw · Dec 8, 2013

Thomas Bertilsson said:
...
Are you guys a little weak out there in Southern California? Or, more than a little, perhaps? Doesn't that bother you?

Probably; Most likely; Not at all.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 8, 2013

BrianShaw said:
Probably; Most likely; Not at all.

benjiboy · Dec 8, 2013

Sirius Glass said:
Today it was so cold in Los Angeles that
we had to close the windows
I put up the top on my convertible
I saw people wearing socks with their sandals
I bought a sweater today
I took the ice out of my coffee

My heart bleeds for you

c.d.ewen · Dec 8, 2013

Sirius Glass said:
Frankly I am somewhat more partial to degrees Rankine to degrees Kelvin although I tend to use degrees Kelvin more frequently.

Hmmm, in a past life, I used degrees Lovibond in my recipes.

Charley

Vaughn · Dec 9, 2013

Exterior hot water pipe split at my house today. Twenty-five degrees right now. Coastal California.

winger · Dec 9, 2013

Vaughn said:
Exterior hot water pipe split at my house today. Twenty-five degrees right now. Coastal California.

A water pipe on the outside of a house? Seriously?! That seems quite bizarre to me.

Vaughn · Dec 9, 2013

Building built pre-1900 with no water, no electrical (originally might have been a judge's office)-- turned into a residence somewhere early in the last century.

Not the strangest thing about the place. For example: Back door is 6'1" -- I am 6'3" -- and no, a taller door can not be installed.

lxdude · Dec 9, 2013

It was so cold tonight in L.A., that the gangbangers were pulling their pants up!

Black Dog · Dec 9, 2013

Purple Snowflakes

benjiboy said:
My heart bleeds for you

Mine too!

Today it was so cold in Los Angeles that

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