To two-bath or not to two-bath

[monkeykoder]

I'm finding that mixing 1gal of chemicals at a time is a bit much for my uses I was wondering if switching to doing 1l (each bath) at a time of a two bath developer would be a more efficient solution. Gallon containers just seem to take up too much room in my small apartment (room I could be using to store more film cameras). Am I going to run into many difficulties mixing up one of the two bath developers from The Film Developers Cookbook (which I just bought) if I buy one of the cheap ebay scales with a precision of .01? Is it more or less cost effective to do a 2 bath vs buying D-76 (ignoring cost of scale as I have other plans for it). Are 2 bath developers good or bad for someone with only 1 semester of experience in a college darkroom? Thanks in advance for your responses.

 

[Ian Grant]

Most photographers never use a two bath developer, they aren't necessarily ideal particularly if you only have a little experience.

Ian

 

[gainer]

There are better alternatives IMO if you are thinking of mixing from dry chemicals. For a number of years I mixed from scratch without a balance, using teaspoon measures. Look in www.unblinkingeye.com for "Non-chromogenic Antiscorbutic Developers for Black & White" by Patrick Gainer. You can easily mix these formulas as needed, a liter (or quart) at a time from the dry chemicals, at a cost of far less than a dollar a liter, and pour them down the drain with a clear conscience when you're done. They are not 2-bath developers, although you could experiment with using them as such.

 

[Lowell Huff]

Use liquid, concentrated developers and fixers, you can aloquat any volume you require. Then you can dispose of the used chemicals.

 

[jim appleyard]

Second on the teaspoon method. In the back of Anchell's "Darkroom Cookbook", there's a table for grams=teaspoons.

Two bath devs with todays films require testing to determine times. Todays emulsions are thought to be too thin to soak up enough of the "A" bath. This testing may cost you several rolls and drive you nuts! If you end up mixing your own, two-baths do have advantages; perhaps longer shelf life (Diafine is a classic), highlight control.

Now, if you do mix your own, most recipes are for 1 liter batches and you can make your own D-76, Rodinal (also very long shelf life), D-23, etc. If by some chance you end up having to toss these home brews, it's only costing you 1 liter and not a gallon.

Plus, there are ways to extend the life of a dev: use glass bottles (glass is not air permeable), fill the space with glass marbles to keep air out, fill the space with propane, etc.

 

[PhotoJim]

You can get smaller packages of premixed developers, too. Ilford, for example, sells one-litre packages of its ID-11 developer. Another option is to use long-lived liquid concentrates like Rodinal or HC-110, which are highly concentrated and take up little space. You mix up a working solution when you're ready to develop. Mixing from scratch is a much larger nuisance but minimizes your costs and gives you a lot more flexibility, so it's worth considering if you get seroius about darkroom work.

Stop bath is always bought as a concentrated liquid, so problem solved.

Fixer can be bought as a liquid instead of a powder (in fact, the liquid version uses ammonium thiosulfate which is believed by some to be more effective than the sodium thiosulfate found in powdered developers). You can buy relatively modest bottles of it (Ilford sells it in one-litre bottles, e.g.) so that you aren't using up a ton of space. You dilute it to a working solution and store the working solution for its working life (usually a few months unless you develop a lot).

 

[Venchka]

For the ultimate in space saving, long lasting, universal developer look no further than a 500ml bottle of Agfa Rodinal. I discovered Rodinal in Germany. Where else, hey? Along with lovely Agfapan film. I was in the US Army. My storage space consisted of a wall locker. The darkroom was a block away. Fortunately, stop and fixer were kept in the darkroom. So, I just stuck a wee bottle of Rodinal in my pocket, stolled over to the darkroom building and Bob's your Uncle! All those lovely Agfapan negatives!

 

[monkeykoder]

I tend to get annoyed with the fact that it costs 80% of the cost of a 1 gallon batch to do 25% of the film maybe I shouldn't since storage is at a premium or maybe I should mix my own and bring it down to 38% the cost to do 25% of the film. Maybe I'm over-exaggerating the savings and maybe I'm under-exaggerating the difficulty/cost of mixing my own.

 

[gainer]

1/8 teaspoon Metol, 1/2 teaspoon ascorbic acid, 1 teaspoon sodium carbonate in a liter or a quart of water at the temperature you plan to use for development, no heating. Try it once. Make believe it is full strength D-76 and see what happens. You can always thin it out if it's too fast for you. A liter or a quart will easily do two rolls (160 sq. inches). Use level measures of the powders.

Seems that it should be awfully grainy because there is no sulfite. Maybe you'll learn something about the correlation between grain and sulfite content.

 

[Claire Senft]

Mr Gainer's advice should be taken to heart...this man is an honest to God rocket scientist...retired. The ascorbic acid is easily obtained in a powder form at a health food store...do not buy in pill form. For the sodium carbonate go to the laundry additives area of your super market and buy washing soda. For the metol buy from techcheminc.com

This is a dandy film developer...good as gold...dirt cheap.

 

[Keith Tapscott.]

1/8 teaspoon Metol, 1/2 teaspoon ascorbic acid, 1 teaspoon sodium carbonate in a liter or a quart of water at the temperature you plan to use for development, no heating. Try it once. Make believe it is full strength D-76 and see what happens. You can always thin it out if it's too fast for you. A liter or a quart will easily do two rolls (160 sq. inches). Use level measures of the powders.

Seems that it should be awfully grainy because there is no sulfite. Maybe you'll learn something about the correlation between grain and sulfite content.

I must order some measuring spoons and try that.

 

[el wacho]

i won't attempt to dissuade you from using two bath developers - instead i'll sing its praises!!!


get yourself some of those cheap ebay scales - 0.1 grams will do fine.


the thin emulsion argument is old and tired - i've used two baths with great success on tmax, ilford delta and fuji acros and they work great ... you just have to adjust the developing agent/accelerator accordingly.


this is Thornton's adjustment of stoeckler's two bath.

bath A pinch of sodium sulfite ( protects the metol ) in 750 mls of water.
Metol 6.5 grams
sodium sulfite 80 grams
water to make 1 litre

bath B sodium metaborate 12grams
water to make 1 litre.

4 minutes in both baths ( A then B with no stop bath in between )
you can vary the times in B for some contrast control ( there is difference between 3 - 5 min )
i've got a bath A that works the same and its been over a year.


if you want sharper then

bath A
metol 6.5 grams
sodium sulfite 35grams
water to make a litre

bath B

sodium carbonate 12grams.

these are straight from Thornton's 'edge of darkness' - recommended reading.


these are very easy to use - i assume you print your own stuff and know how to arrive at the appropriate neg density for your enlarger. have fun.

 

[el wacho]

ps Gainer's metol - rodinal which can be found here is great... too many options.

 

[PhotoJim]

I tend to get annoyed with the fact that it costs 80% of the cost of a 1 gallon batch to do 25% of the film maybe I shouldn't since storage is at a premium or maybe I should mix my own and bring it down to 38% the cost to do 25% of the film. Maybe I'm over-exaggerating the savings and maybe I'm under-exaggerating the difficulty/cost of mixing my own.

If you throw half the gallon batch away because it went bad, you've lost a lot of the savings.

Obviously at some point the waste may be worth it (although that doesn't consider the environmental consequences, which should really be factored in).

Mixing from scratch is a good solution to this problem. Powdered ingredients keep in storage a long time, and you can mix up whatever batch size you need - half a litre, a litre, two litres, four litres... whatever.

 

[David Brown]

I tend to get annoyed with the fact that it costs 80% of the cost of a 1 gallon batch to do 25% of the film maybe I shouldn't since storage is at a premium or maybe I should mix my own and bring it down to 38% the cost to do 25% of the film. Maybe I'm over-exaggerating the savings and maybe I'm under-exaggerating the difficulty/cost of mixing my own.

Wayne's suggestion of Rodinal is an alternative. As is HC110, or Tmax, or DDX, etc. If your issue really is storage, rather than cost (you've bought the book, scales, etc., so you have a little money ) then go with a one-shot developer such as one of these. Couldn't be easier.

 

[davekarp]

I'll agree with El Wacho. 2 bath developers work nicely. I'll also second the recommendation of Thornton's 2 bath. It has become my most used film developer. 2 baths free you from obsessing about film development. The negs look great and print well.

If you are worried about developer lasting a long time, try Diafine. It is a 2 bath that lasts forever.

There is a prejudice against these developers, which you can see by searching here for threads on 2 baths, and reading some of the comments. Others, like me, love them. Outside of here, I was told by a chemist that the Thornton formula would not work, while I was holding negs developed in it in my hands!

Another alternative for smaller format negs would be divided D-76.

Try one of these. You might like it.

 

[dancqu]

Am I going to run into many difficulties mixing
up one of the two bath developers from The Film
Developers Cookbook (which I just bought) if I buy
one of the cheap ebay scales with a precision of .01?

Pick up a Good .01. The capacity need not be
great; 100 grams or less. Be sure the resolution
and accuracy are both tight. All my work is with
partial batches. That way you'll have fresh
with which to work chemistry with very
little wasted, film or paper. A large
variety of developers and ... Dan

 

[monkeykoder]

Thanks for the advice so far I think I'll try out some of gainer's formulas for a bit.

 

[Harry Lime]

I switched to 2-bath from D76 and mainly Ilford DD-X. I primarily shoot Tri-X @ 400.

About 4 months ago I started to use to Barry Thornton's 2 bath and since have enjoyed the most consistent and best developed negatives I've ever produced.

No more worries about temperature, agitation and timing. It's completely idiot proof to mix and use.

Highlights are delicate and are next to impossible to blow out and the shadows are full of detail. Grain is tight and the images are razor sharp.

I'm going to give Divided D76 a shot, since this will apparently give a slight boost in speed, but I must say that Thornton's 2-bath and similar developers (Stoeckler, D23 etc) are sheer genius.

 

[JBrunner]

Hc110 direct from concentrate 1+49 as a one shot. Incredible shelf life, low cost, small space.

http://www.jasonbrunner.com/hc110.html