To push, to pull? Please advise.

[CMartin]

Hello, I am a newbie. There are two films: Ilford HP5, and Kodak 400TX.

Ilford first; I deliberatly underexposed HP5 for two stops on a clear sunny day, no lightmeter in my pocket but I followed Sunny 16 rule.

I hope to get deep shadows, high contrast.

Please, would it be better to develop HP5 for its nominal 400 ASA, or to overdevelop for two stops according to manufacturor's recommendation found inside its packaging ?

I have access to DD-X, ID-11, Perceptol, Ilfosol 3, Microphen and D76.

Kodak 400TX, on a dull day coincidentally overexposed for one stop. Do you reccomend pulling it for one stop in Perceptol, or develop normaly for it's nominal speed 400 ASA ?

Thank you.

 

[Maris]

To push, to pull? I reckon do neither unless the negative is the final product in your photographic production. I would expose fully and develop normally to have a negative with good density range, normal contrast, and details in the shadows and highlights.
THEN, if I wanted dark shadows and high contrast I would print it on high contrast paper. OR if I wanted open shadows and lower contrast then the negative gets projected on low contrast paper. The normal negative enables all options, even letting you change your mind about the final rendition. The push/pull negative doesn't.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

DO NOT underexpose or overexpose. Use the published speed of the film and the recommended development time and agitation using D76 or ID-11. For reasons unknown there is a fad for underexposing - stay away from it, it just leads to lousy photographs.

Overexposing in combination with reduced development is used to increase the dynamic range of the film when taking pictures of scenes with more than 10 stops of brightness range - a sunlit desert scene comes to mind. That said, practitioners of the Zone System tend to rate the film at 2/3 stop slower and develop for ~10-15% less time.

Underexposing in combination with increased development is used to decrease the dynamic range of the film when taking pictures of scenes with low brightness range - say trees in the fog. This technique is used in the Zone System, but even then it is used rarely.

"Pushing" was used by press photographers when they had to try and capture a usable image in dim light with a handheld camera - i.e. in conditions where using the box film speed would require a 1 second exposure and pushing by 2 stops let them shoot at 1/4 second which is probably the lower limit of a hand held exposure. This resulted in images with lots of grain and masses of black shadow - but as the end result was a photograph in the newspaper it didn't matter all that much.

Deep shadows doesn't mean black shadows - it means dark shadows in the print that have detail in them. If deep, dark shadows in the print are what you are after then meter the dark shadows in the scene and close down 3 stops.

If you are looking for a grainy gritty look use a 3200 speed film like TMax-3200 or Ilford Delta 3200.

Read up on the Zone System for more on increasing and decreasing exposure to match the scene brightness http://www.darkroomautomation.com/em-faq.htm The book is https://www.amazon.com/Negative-Ansel-Adams-Photography/dp/0821221868, available from any library.

* * *​

As for "Sunny 16" you may find it is closer to "Sunny 11" in northern climes.

 

[John Bragg]

To push, to pull? I reckon do neither unless the negative is the final product in your photographic production. I would expose fully and develop normally to have a negative with good density range, normal contrast, and details in the shadows and highlights.
THEN, if I wanted dark shadows and high contrast I would print it on high contrast paper. OR if I wanted open shadows and lower contrast then the negative gets projected on low contrast paper. The normal negative enables all options, even letting you change your mind about the final rendition. The push/pull negative doesn't.

What he said !

 

[grain elevator]

Guys, the op has already underexposed the film. I agree it's not a great idea. But now, yes, develop it according to the times the manufacturer gives for EI 1600.
Your Tri-x one stop overexposed can be developed as normal, that's no big deal.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Hello, I am a newbie. There are two films: Ilford HP5, and Kodak 400TX.

Ilford first; I deliberatly underexposed HP5 for two stops on a clear sunny day, no lightmeter in my pocket but I followed Sunny 16 rule.

I hope to get deep shadows, high contrast.

Please, would it be better to develop HP5 for its nominal 400 ASA, or to overdevelop for two stops according to manufacturor's recommendation found inside its packaging ?

I have access to DD-X, ID-11, Perceptol, Ilfosol 3, Microphen and D76.

Kodak 400TX, on a dull day coincidentally overexposed for one stop. Do you reccomend pulling it for one stop in Perceptol, or develop normaly for it's nominal speed 400 ASA ?

Thank you.

when in doubt, always follow the manufacturer's advise, especially if you like a bit more contrast; and remember ID-11 and D-76 are completly identical.

 

[gone]

If you're new to this, it might be better to use one film, one developer, and see what it looks like over a few months. I've been developing my negs for decades and never pushed or pulled a film. Never needed to.

You'd be amazed by how much you can change the look of a negative with different types of exposure, lens filters, different developers and methods of development, times and temps, agitation protocols, etc.

When anyone starts out, it's like the old drawing analogy. You can't start where Degas ended, we all have to start where he started.

 

[grain elevator]

I've been developing my negs for decades and never pushed or pulled a film. Never needed to.[...]
You'd be amazed by how much you can change the look of a negative with different types of exposure [...] times and temps [...]

 

[Paul Howell]

Shooting HP5+ two stops under takes you ISO 1600 which is a 2 stop push, you will need to extend development or push to compensate, what you get is very thin shadow details and high contrast, larger grain.

From massive development chart

lford HP5+ D-76 stock 1600 14 14 14 68F
Ilford HP5+ D-76 1+1 1600 18 18 18 68F

Ilford HP5+ Ilfotec DD-X 1+4 1600 13 13 13 68F
Ilford HP5+ Ilfotec DD-X 1+4 1600 10 10 10 75F
Ilford HP5+ Ilfotec DD-X 1+9 1600 16 16 16 75F


For Tri X you shot at 800 a one stop push, check out the time posted on the massive development chart, or the latest Kodak data sheet for TriX for times.

I would use DDX and by the way D76 and ID 11 are the same developer, ID 11 is Ilford's version of D76.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Under exposing cuts down the details in the shadows. Shoot box speed and print with higher contrast.