To Jobo or not to Jobo

B&Wpositive · Dec 19, 2009

Ok, so someone has a Jobo CPP2 available and I'm trying to decide if it's practical for me or not. here is my situation:

I currently develop 35mm and medium format b&w film. I am going to be setting up an enlarger in the basement soon to start printing. I do not have running water in the basement.

I am planning to do some b&w printing and maybe film developing, too, for my colleague's wedding photography business, though I don't know if our experiement will end up panning out.

I don't currently do color, though I kind of want to do RA-4 too, or possibly C-41 if I can afford the chemicals and if it's practical for a non-professional printer who has no dedicated darkroom, running water, or ventilation in the basement.

I don't know if the Jobo thing is practical for someone like me...does it need running water nearby? Can you use it on the concrete floor without making a mess? How big and heavy is it? Do you have to be good with troubleshooting mechanisms? Will the Jobo make color easier or is it just a big pain? Can you use it for both color and b&w? Does it need 220 volts? Do you have to use it in the dark? How much current does it draw? etc, etc. Please educate me so I can decide whether it fits my needs or not. Thanks.

GrantR · Dec 19, 2009

The CPP2 is still a pretty basic machine--it's rather large (about 2.5-3ft wide). I use mine with running water nearby, but it is by no means necessary, I just like having a place to dump all the water afterwards--the machine itself is fairly light, but when it is full of water, it is fairly heavy, I imagine about 50-60lbs. I would advise keeping it on a bench/worktable about waist height. I rarely use it though for black and white as it seems to give about a 1/3 stop push. The JOBO is about the only way to do color without it being a huge pain in the butt (with the exception of having a minilab in your basement). The CPP also just takes a regular 110 outlet. If you're getting this thing for free, I say go for it.

B&Wpositive · Dec 19, 2009

Good insight; thank you very much.

Anyone else with further insight? I'd like as many inputs as possible.

jeroldharter · Dec 19, 2009

He summed it up well. A Jobo is a good fit for your needs. It works great for roll film development.

The machine might be free, but assembling the right tanks and reels could be pricey if not included.

Don't try to lift the unit when it is full of water. You could drain it into a bucket before moving it.

If you intend to do color it is great for temperature control for both film and paper. Makes it easy.

Jerry Thirsty · Dec 19, 2009

Personally I only use my Jobo for E-6 and C-41 (and once in a great while, for RA-4), but never for B&W. The only way I can imagine using it for B&W is if I needed to develop more than four rolls at once, but I just don't shoot enough at a time to get there.

david_mizen · Dec 19, 2009

i have used one for e6 process - filling from a bucket is no problem so running water not required i had mine on a bench at waist height working on a concrete floor would be a PIA as you will be bending over for every change of chemicals also i had a medium size plastic tank that i pour the used chems into after each cycle - the electrics are 12v auto wiper motor to turn the drum 110/240 (depending where you are 110 for USA 240V for Europe and Australia) for the heater element should not be to expensive to run if you plan to do c41 it would be just the ticket

B&Wpositive · Dec 19, 2009

jeroldharter said:
Don't try to lift the unit when it is full of water. You could drain it into a bucket before moving it.

Draining the water, ok...as long as it doesn't make a mess by splashing. Is there a tube or anything to drain it into a bucket? And how do you drain the chemicals? How much fluid do you have to put in? And how many containers for fluid are there?

Is there an instruction manual online somewhere?

B&Wpositive · Dec 19, 2009

As far as working on the floor...if it were necessary, how big a deal would it be? Would it just require kneeling to pour in water and chemical? Could the unit be drained from the floor without water leaking out all over and flooding everything? Or do you need gravity to drain it properly?

We have one of those plastic folding tables from Costco (with metal legs). Not sure if it could support the Jobo filled up.

Oren Grad · Dec 19, 2009

B&Wpositive said:
Is there an instruction manual online somewhere?

http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_analog/us_analog/instructions/instructions_manual_cpa-2_cpp-2_00.htm

Oren Grad · Dec 19, 2009

B&Wpositive said:
As far as working on the floor...if it were necessary, how big a deal would it be? Would it just require kneeling to pour in water and chemical? Could the unit be drained from the floor without water leaking out all over and flooding everything? Or do you need gravity to drain it properly?

It depends how much you care about your knees and your back. You'll be bouncing up and down with every step in the process, and color tends to have very short process steps. Draining the tempering bath with the unit sitting on the floor would be a nuisance - the spigot is on one end of the "tub", at the bottom.

B&Wpositive · Dec 19, 2009

Oren Grad said:
It depends how much you care about your knees and your back. You'll be bouncing up and down with every step in the process, and color tends to have very short process steps. Draining the tempering bath with the unit sitting on the floor would be a nuisance - the spigot is on one end of the "tub", at the bottom.

Floor is not a good option in this case. Thanks.

alanrockwood · Dec 19, 2009

B&Wpositive said:
Ok, so someone has a Jobo CPP2 available and I'm trying to decide if it's practical for me or not. here is my situation:

Are you planning to develop both prints and film in the processor, or just film?

If you are only processing film, and are not doing anything bigger than 4x5 inch film, then photo-therm is probably a better choice than Jobo... better quality instrument and easier to use. Plus, photo-therm is still in the business of selling processors.

Sometimes you can find a photo-therm on ebay for a few hundred dollars. I actually picked on up for about $100, but that was an almost unheard of low price. You are probably looking at $500-$1000 in most cases at the auction site. The brand-new price is a few thousand dollars.

However, if you can get the Jobo for a good price then it might be worth a shot.

B&Wpositive · Dec 20, 2009

alanrockwood said:
However, if you can get the Jobo for a good price then it might be worth a shot.

There is no price, if you know what I mean.

alanrockwood · Dec 20, 2009

B&Wpositive said:
There is no price, if you know what I mean.

In that case I think you should go for it.

B&Wpositive · Dec 21, 2009

Thanks to everyone for all the advice.

In the end, I decided to focus my attention on black and white, so I will not be using a Jobo.

jp80874 · Dec 21, 2009

Is sheet film in your future plans? I only do B&W because I am 85% color blind. I started using the Jobo when I had a volume of MF and was moving to 4x5. Now I only do 8x10 (100 sheets a year) and 7x17 (250 sheets a year) and love the Jobo CPP-2. If you think that down the road you might go this direction I would grab the Jobo and store it until you are ready. They don't get stale with age. As a matter of fact since they are no longer sold new in the US (I think) grabbing it while it is free is GOOD. I got a spare that way.

I use Rollo Pyro developer from Bostick & Sullivan. I use the Jobo in an 8 foot sink with hot, cold running water and a drain. I go through a lot of fluid. I use the larger Expert tanks. In the process I have a 500ml of prewash, then 1300ml developer, two 750ml rinses, 500ml fixer, two quick 750ml rinses and ten changes 750ml of water rinse. Just to be sure all is clean of fixer I then fill the tanks twice and dump. Gallons. You definitely want plumbing and a sink or drain for this. Empty the unit is less than 20 pounds. I take it out of the sink and store it on a cart. Then I can use the sink for processing sheets of print paper in trays.

John Powers

eclarke · Dec 22, 2009

B&Wpositive said:
Thanks to everyone for all the advice.

In the end, I decided to focus my attention on black and white, so I will not be using a Jobo.

WOW, I have desperately trying to find a backup for my machine, is this available??..Evan Clarke

Soeren · Dec 22, 2009

alanrockwood said:
>SNIP
If you are only processing film, and are not doing anything bigger than 4x5 inch film, then photo-therm is probably a better choice than Jobo... better quality instrument and easier to use. Plus, photo-therm is still in the business of selling processors.
SNIP<

>SNIP
However, if you can get the Jobo for a good price then it might be worth a shot.

As far as I know Jobo is still making and selling Processors(CPP2+). I have a CPE 2+ with lift that I have been using regularly for B&W film processing lately. Apart from the comfort of not having to time agitation schemes and doing the agitation by hand it is saving both chemistry and water. Not having running water in my darkroom I prefer it to manual agitation using a lot more water and chemistry which I have to carry in and out. Also the jobo drums are really great although somewhat expensive. They are built modular and the internals are interchangeable between the current series (1500, 2500 and 2800) so with only a couple of tanks you have a lot of possibilities. The 1500 series and 2800 series paperdrums are actually not that expensive so in fact......
Best regards

pentaxuser · Dec 22, 2009

I think that Soeren has summed up the advantages of a CPP2 processor very well, even for B&W. It's worth reading his post or reading it again if you have glanced at it.

The Jobo is very versatile. I'd think again about your decision if I were in your shoes. If you do get it then place it on a bench at waist level. It really isn't practical to use it on the floor, even if your body joints are all in top condition. A simple syphon will empty it until that point at which the remaining water is sufficiently small to allow it to be lifted and the remainder poured out

pentaxuser

B&Wpositive · Dec 22, 2009

I received a very helpful email from someone, and it explained why the Jobo is not well-suited to b&w processing. As someone who does not intend to do color in the near future, if ever, there is little practical advantage.

And I have no running water in the basement! Trays are not much of a problem to handle in this situation.

eclarke · Dec 22, 2009

B&Wpositive said:
I received a very helpful email from someone, and it explained why the Jobo is not well-suited to b&w processing. As someone who does not intend to do color in the near future, if ever, there is little practical advantage.

Check John Sexton, he does all his B&W in Jobo, also Howard Bond...Evan Clarke

Pasto · Dec 22, 2009

I've owned just about all the Jobo CPXX models, and now have the ATL2+. There is really no downside to a Jobo as far as I'm concerned, provided it's in good condition. Just about all the parts are available if you look hard enough. My enlarger and ATL are essentials in my darkroom, and I only develop B&W. It makes processing a breeze and keeps everything consistent from batch to batch. I also do all my printing (except toning) in the ATL. I can print from postcards up to 20x24 with amazing easy. I can't recommend them enough

AmandaTom · Dec 22, 2009

I find the Jobo a huge advantage for B&W sheet film. Were I only developing small quatities of 120 or 35mm its usefulness would still outweigh its disadvantages. For me, that is. I don't think it is possible to make blanket statements about any system being right or not right for processing--that's something you have to decide for yourself.

Anon Ymous · Dec 22, 2009

Pasto said:
I've owned just about all the Jobo CPXX models, and now have the ATL2+. There is really no downside to a Jobo as far as I'm concerned, provided it's in good condition...

AmandaTom said:
I find the Jobo a huge advantage for B&W sheet film. Were I only developing small quatities of 120 or 35mm its usefulness would still outweigh its disadvantages...

While such a processor has some obvious advantages, it denies you a usefull control in BW processing: agitation.

Remember, the OP isn't interested in C41, or E6.

Pasto · Dec 22, 2009

Agitation is a variable that can be controlled with the Jobo. The ATL2+ has 4 different rotation speeds. Having said all that, of course the machine has limits. I try to keep development as simple and consistent as possible. In the end, it matches perfectly with the way I like to work in the darkroom. It may not be everyone's cup of tea....

To Jobo or not to Jobo

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