to be a photographer:

PaulH · May 20, 2005

Jeez... and all this while I thought you were a poet.

akar · May 20, 2005

Despite a couple of efforts, this horse apparantly refuses to die. Bjorke, I found your comments to be very thought-provoking, but I think there is more to this thread than merely making fences. For me anyway this thread has been about what it really means to be a photographer. Since the dictionary definitions seem inadequate, I have enjoyed hearing others' opinions. It's not as simple as it seems, as earlier posts have pointed out.

John Bartley · May 20, 2005

Titles - I always used to chuckle when a customer would come into my small engine shop to have his chainsaw fixed and I'd ask for his name to put on the work order and I'd get "Dr. So&So" for an answer. I hadn't asked him what he did for a living but he'd felt compelled to tell me.....

So..... are "we" photographers? Well, without trying to offend anyone, my answer would be something like :

"Y'all can be whatever you like...I'm just a guy who's enjoying his life and sometimes I take pictures and sometimes I fly aeroplanes and sometimes I hunt and sometimes I fish and sometimes I go to work fixing your lawnmower and sometimes I just sit and watch TV with my sweetheart"

I don't think I'm a photographer, but I do enjoy taking pictures. Not a very sophisticated answer, but then I'm just a simple guy .

cheers eh?

blansky · May 21, 2005

What am I?

I walk but am not a walker.
I design but am not a designer.
I babysit but am not a mother.
I teach but am not a teacher.

I paint but am not a painter.
I build but am not a builder
I care but am not a caregiver
I skate but am not a skater

I clean but am not a cleaner
I wash dishes but am not a dishwasher
I garden but am not a gardener
I fly but am not a flyer

I speak but am not a speaker
I debate but am not a debater
I travel but am not a traveler
I heal but am not a healer

What am I?

Its simple

I photograph and Im a photographer.
Why, because I earned the title.

Michael

anyte · May 21, 2005

blansky said:
I babysit but am not a mother.

I'm a mother but I am by no means a babysitter. The two are not one in the same.

If you have the qualifications or the degree to be hired into a specific field, are you not, under circumstances, allowed the associated title? Say you've trained as a pilot but no longer work for a commercial airline, you only fly recreationally, are you not still a pilot? If the answer is no could you explain why that is?

blansky · May 21, 2005

The connotation of a mother is an earned title. Dennotatively it's probably someone who gives birth, but in society we consider a mother someone who does far more than conceive or babysit.

The pilot example is (all this is obviously my opinion) if you were a pilot, earned the title of pilot, then you are free to call yourself a pilot still, if only a recreational pilot, if you so choose. Not because of your present hours in the air but because you earned the title. If you no longer flew you would probably call yourself a retired pilot.

Someone here said that if they once did photography for money, and then quit, are they still a photographer. My criteria would be were they good enough to be called the title of photographer in the first place, meaning did they "earn" the title or were they just dabbling in it. If they felt they earned the title, then even if they only did it recreationally, they are still a photographer.

I believe that there are people who take pictures, but are not photographers as my previous post tried to illustrate.

Michael

MattCarey · May 21, 2005

As noted before, this horse just won't die...

One must keep in mind that there are two levels of recognition here.

1) has one earned a title?
2) has one earned respect?

If you automatically give respect to a person with a title, then the two are coincident.

However, I have seen people with Ph.D.'s from excellent schools who are idiots. One of the most accomplished people at IBM Research didn't have a Ph.D. I don't combine title with respect.

There are people on APUG with images and opinions who have more than earned my respect. I have yet to see a pro on APUG whose work wasn't good, but I am sure in the wide world that there are people who have earned the title "photographer" whose work is not excellent.

I guess I would put it this way:

Someone shows you a business card that says "Photographer". Another person shows you a print that really grabs you. Who do you remember a month later?

Matt

John Bartley · May 21, 2005

MattCarey said:
...snipped....
One must keep in mind that there are two levels of recognition here.
1) has one earned a title?
2) has one earned respect?
....snipped..............
Someone shows you a business card that says "Photographer". Another person shows you a print that really grabs you. Who do you remember a month later?

Matt

exactly !!

.

blansky · May 21, 2005

Why is everyone in such a hurry to kill off the poor horse.

My criteria is similar but first earn the title. Then the respect. Meaning you earn the title then once you have the title, namely photographer, then it's up for grabs if you are a good one or not. Probably if you earned the title then you will at least be competent.

Because as has been said before, anybody can turn out one, or ten good prints, but does that give them the title. Lots of hobbiest can make wonderful prints yet many would say that they are still working their way to the title.

If the title photographer, is a profession or a just a passion does it not garner the respect and have the obligation to have a level of expertise attached.

Granted it's an honor system but just by virtue of owning a camera degrades us all, if that is the only criteria present.

Much like any other titles. First doctor. Then good doctor or bad doctor.

As for your comment about who you remember a month later, does this really enter the conversation. It's not about who you remember. It's about what we honestly feel we have the right to call ourselves.

Michael

bill schwab · May 21, 2005

This horse certainly has been beaten beyond death. But after reading this whole drawn out thread, I can't help but think that perhaps there should be a little more photographing going on than there is talking about what it is or means to be one.

Just my 2 cents..

Bill

www.billschwab.com

blansky · May 21, 2005

billschwab said:
This horse certainly has been beaten beyond death. But after reading this whole drawn out thread, I can't help but think that perhaps there should be a little more photographing going on than there is talking about what it is or means to be one.

Just my 2 cents..

Bill

www.billschwab.com

In case this thread has caused anyone confusion, this gentleman is a PHOTOGRAPHER.

Michael

B-3 · May 21, 2005

blansky said:
In case this thread has caused anyone confusion, this gentleman is a PHOTOGRAPHER.

Michael

Aye - and the rest of youse are PITs! (That's Photographer-In-Training for those of you who are acronymically challenged).

Dang - I guess that includes me. I'll just go have a good cry into my beer. Actually, to be specific, it'll probably be an ale. Although... sometimes, I do like a nice cold lager, especially on those warm afternoons. Stouts are nice too, but kind of filling. But they do all have a bit of alcohol in them, right? Gets the job done. Oh yeah, and then there's wine... many fine varieties...

bill schwab · May 21, 2005

blansky said:
...this gentleman is a PHOTOGRAPHER.

You're too kind Michael!

I'd say if you're passionate enough about cameras, film, paper and stinky chemicals to spend as much time around them as most of us seem to, its safe to say you... we... are all photographers.

Bill

www.billschwab.com

akar · May 22, 2005

I just read this this morning and it is too appropriate for this thread. From Bill Jay's End Notes in Lenswork #58~

"One of the most bizarre conversations I have held in recent weeks was with a woman who introduced herself as a photographer. She talked a lot about art <SNIP> Eventually she casually allowed that she did not actually use a camera or take pictures. But she often thought about the pictures she could take if she felt like it."

So, Bill, in light of this, about your earlier point that we might be better off talking less and taking more pictures, what's that got to do with photography, really?

bill schwab · May 22, 2005

akar said:
So, Bill, in light of this, about your earlier point that we might be better off talking less and taking more pictures, what's that got to do with photography, really?

I think I'm a little lost Allen. Are you asking me what taking pictures has to do with photography - or what talking less about it does?

As for my original post... I'm not the best comic, but I was trying for a little comic relief there. In all seriousness though -and again I am only putting forth an opinion, I meet A LOT of photographers that like to philosophize and talk about what it is to be a photographer. I've just always found that the photographers I was most interested in didn't seem to spend much time worrying about such things. They just went out there and made photographs. Some good, many bad - just like all of us. They're just good at keeping the bad ones from getting out there. (another attempt at humor)

Bill

www.billschwab.com

anyte · May 22, 2005

blansky said:
The connotation of a mother is an earned title. Dennotatively it's probably someone who gives birth, but in society we consider a mother someone who does far more than conceive or babysit.

The pilot example is (all this is obviously my opinion) if you were a pilot, earned the title of pilot, then you are free to call yourself a pilot still, if only a recreational pilot, if you so choose. Not because of your present hours in the air but because you earned the title. If you no longer flew you would probably call yourself a retired pilot.

Someone here said that if they once did photography for money, and then quit, are they still a photographer. My criteria would be were they good enough to be called the title of photographer in the first place, meaning did they "earn" the title or were they just dabbling in it. If they felt they earned the title, then even if they only did it recreationally, they are still a photographer.

I believe that there are people who take pictures, but are not photographers as my previous post tried to illustrate.

Michael

Thank you for the clarification.

anyte · May 22, 2005

billschwab said:
This horse certainly has been beaten beyond death. But after reading this whole drawn out thread, I can't help but think that perhaps there should be a little more photographing going on than there is talking about what it is or means to be one.

Just my 2 cents..

Bill

The two days this month that we have had clear skies I've been tied up in other responsibilities. Otherwise I'd be more than happy to get out and do some shooting.

akar · May 22, 2005

billschwab said:
I think I'm a little lost Allen. Are you asking me what taking pictures has to do with photography - or what talking less about it does?

Bill, just my (weak) attempt at humor -- I was asking what taking pictures has to do with photography based upon what the woman in Bill Jay's quote said, but it was not a serious question on my part at all.

By the way, I thought the humor in your earlier post came out clearly, as did the validity of the message.

bill schwab · May 23, 2005

akar said:
...just my (weak) attempt at humor

I thought so... not weak at all! The only thing that lacks in this type of communication is the inability to see the person's face or hear their voice.

By the way, I loved the story from Bill Jay! It takes all kinds.

Bill

www.billschwab.com

benjiboy · Jun 15, 2005

blansky said:
Photography has always been a strange one.

Being a professional, it used to irk me when as the saying goes : when you own a camera you're a photographer.......... . When you see a guy with a wrench working on his car and ask if he is a mechanic (and he isn't) he will say no it's just a hobby, or something like that. You see a guy with a plumbers snake and you ask if he's a plumber, (if he isn't) he'll say no, just trying to save a few bucks. You see a guy in court objecting to a speeding ticket you ask if he's a lawyer and(if he isn't) he'll say, hell no can't afford one.

The point is how did owning the camera transform it into a career or profession. I guess it's just an idiom of the language. That's why I guess it's necessary to differentiate photographer from professional photographer.

You don't hear of professional plumbers, professional lawyers, professional teachers, professional mechanics. Weird huh.

"Actually I'm an amateur doctor, now please slip off your clothes and lets have a look at you."

It used to bug me but since I'm older and supposedly wiser, I really don't give a damn now, what people call themselves.

Michael

I am pleased to be an amateur photographer, to be free to pursue my photographic interests for fifty years, and use whatever creativity I might have without the constraints of having to make a living from it. The word amateur is from the latin word for lover, and to my mind it's professional photographers who should envy our freedom, this in no way means that the highest standards of phototechnical quality can be achieved by amateurs, although it sickens me how many rank amateurs take on professional commisions for weddings, portraits etc. depriving a pro. of the work, undercutting his price, and then produce a set of happysnaps giving photographers a bad name.

Claire Senft · Jun 15, 2005

If you use a camera and film you are a photographer more matter what your skill level is.

k_jupiter · Jun 15, 2005

MattCarey said:
Well, I looked it up (dictionary.com): Photographer = "someone who takes photographs professionally". Pro Photographer is redundant.

Matt

Well, Merriam Webster On Line Says:

one who practices photography; especially : one who makes a business of taking photographs.

So, you don't have to be a 'Pro' to be a photographer. And does that make the 17 YO who works the camera down at the Costco, taking pictures for the back of your Costco card a photographer? And me, I studied photography for two years in Boston, I spend a fair amount of time thinking about or working at becoming better with all my photographic equipment and materials, but I have never sold a single print, I am not one?

I look at it like this... I am an engineer (degreed), just not a very good one. I am also a photographer, just not a very good one either.

So I don't know if Blansky thinks I am worthy, or have earned the right, to be a 'photographer', but I think most of y'all have the right to call yourself one, as long as you don't use a Holga. I you use one of them, you are an 'artist'.

tim in san jose (grinning like crazy at this realy weird discussion)

Ed Sukach · Jun 15, 2005

k_jupiter said:
So I don't know if ... I am worthy, or have earned the right, to be a 'photographer', but I think most of y'all have the right to call yourself one, as long as you don't use a Holga. I you use one of them, you are an 'artist'.

One of the best defintitions of an "Artist" I've heard yet!!!

benjiboy · Jun 16, 2005

Waste of time and money

akar said:
I just read this this morning and it is too appropriate for this thread. From Bill Jay's End Notes in Lenswork #58~

"One of the most bizarre conversations I have held in recent weeks was with a woman who introduced herself as a photographer. She talked a lot about art <SNIP> Eventually she casually allowed that she did not actually use a camera or take pictures. But she often thought about the pictures she could take if she felt like it."

So, Bill, in light of this, about your earlier point that we might be better off talking less and taking more pictures, what's that got to do with photography, really?

This is the ultimate photography, I have been doing this for years,when I was out without a camera, but so far have been unable to find a way to print them.

clogz · Jun 16, 2005

Well, Bentley, make sure you stand about three feet away from an inkjet printer and concentrate very hard....in the digimagical world anything is possible

to be a photographer:

PaulH

akar

John Bartley

blansky

anyte

blansky

MattCarey

John Bartley

blansky

bill schwab

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blansky

B-3

bill schwab

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akar

bill schwab

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anyte

anyte

akar

bill schwab

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benjiboy

Claire Senft

k_jupiter

Ed Sukach

benjiboy

clogz

to be a photographer:

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