Tmy-2 single tank and development time help

Puma · May 17, 2017

Hi,

A few questions:

I usually shoot tri-x and develop in xtol. Branching out I bought some tmy-2 and Tmax developer to try. I recall hearing from someone that there's a problem developing in a single reel tank. Is this true?

I shot two rolls. Roll one I accidentally shot at EI 200 and a yellow filter. While there's nothing important on it, I'd love a shot at actually getting some printable images. Any idea of a development time/agitation/temp that will allow me to salvage this roll.

Second roll I shot at 320, also with a yellow filter, and it has a couple of important images that I really need to come out. I know, I should've experimented first. Oops.

Tmax developer is 1+4, meaning one ounce developer plus four ounces of water. So for an eight ounce tank I'd mix two ounces of developer and eight ounces of water for a total of ten ounces?

I use ILford ilfostop. Will the ten second bath be enough for this film?

I also use ILford fixer. Will using a different brand fixer make any difference?

I don't have any hypo clear. Is that a problem?

Your help is greatly appreciated!

Anon Ymous · May 17, 2017

It doesn't matter if you use TMax developer, or Xtol, a one stop overexposure is not severe and this film can handle it very easily. Just develop normally, using whatever time Kodak suggests.

Anon Ymous · May 17, 2017

By the way, whatever developer you use, make sure you use at least whatever minimum quantity per film the manufacturer suggests.

The time in stop bath isn't critical, leaving it there longer won't hurt. Using any other fixer won't hurt either, as long as you give enough fixing time. That said, Ilford Rapid fixer is just fine, as any other rapid, non hardening fixer. It also doesn't matter that you don't have hypo clear, it's certainly not necessary, but you just need to wash long enough.

Petraio Prime · May 17, 2017

Be sure to fill the tank all the way to the top, and use inversion agitation, no more than two inversions once or twice per minute.

Puma · May 17, 2017

Anon Ymous said:
By the way, whatever developer you use, make sure you use at least whatever minimum quantity per film the manufacturer suggests.

The time in stop bath isn't critical, leaving it there longer won't hurt. Using any other fixer won't hurt either, as long as you give enough fixing time. That said, Ilford Rapid fixer is just fine, as any other rapid, non hardening fixer. It also doesn't matter that you don't have hypo clear, it's certainly not necessary, but you just need to wash long enough.

I looked through the data sheet and I thought it said 100 ml minimum but I don't see that now. Anyhow, thanks for your response. I'm all mixed up to temp and I'm gonna give roll one a try.

Puma · May 17, 2017

Why only two per minute when the data sheet says five per 30 seconds?

Petraio Prime · May 17, 2017

Puma said:
Why only two per minute when the data sheet says five per 30 seconds?

During the beginning, agitate continuously (but gently) for about half a minute. Then start 2 inversions per minute, once per minute.

http://www.21gradi.it/repository/bwdv_prc.pdf

Petraio Prime · May 17, 2017

Puma said:
I looked through the data sheet and I thought it said 100 ml minimum but I don't see that now. Anyhow, thanks for your response. I'm all mixed up to temp and I'm gonna give roll one a try.

Fill the tank, regardless of the number of rolls. This will keep the developer from sloshing around and creating surges.

Puma · May 17, 2017

Petraio Prime said:
During the beginning, agitate continuously (but gently) for about half a minute. Then start 2 inversions per minute, once per minute.

http://www.21gradi.it/repository/bwdv_prc.pdf

I'll try it with the ei 200 roll. I really don't have anything to lose. Thanks!

pentaxuser · May 17, 2017

I am unsure if you are yet to use the TMax developer which I have never used and cannot comment on but if you are using Xtol then my experience with it suggests that it is sensible to stick to 4-5 inversions per 30 secs as per the Xtol instructions. I admit that this seem a lot and resembles a cocktail waiter' shake but Xtol seems to thrive on frequent and rapid inversions.

2 inversions per 30 secs would not be a disaster but cutting this to 2 inversions per minute is a fairly large reduction on Xtol's recommended inversion regime. I'd be a bit uneasy about that large a reduction in inversions

pentaxuser

MattKing · May 17, 2017

Is it T-Max developer, or T-Max RS developer and replenisher?
The 1+4 mixing instructions are easier to follow if you use smaller units. An 8 ounce tank is 236 ml. So if you mix it 50 ml stock + 200 ml water(250 ml in total) it will work well. Don't overflow your tank though - you want at least a little air in there, so the developer is able to "slosh".
Assuming T-Max developer, the Kodak datasheet (j86) indicates a capacity of 16 rolls per US gallon of working strength developer (unless you wish to increase capacity by extending time). That works out to 8 US fluid ounces of working strength developer per roll. So your tank should be fine.
Kodak's agitation recommendations are more vigorous than some others. If you are going to agitate less, you will likely need to increase development times a bit to compensate. In any event, you will want to fine tune your results.
By the way, TMY-2 behaves well in all sorts of developers. If you are happy with X-Tol with your Tri-X, most likely you will be happy with X-Tol with your TMY-2.
It is the data-sheet for X-Tol (j109 - see page 2) that specifies a minimum of 100ml of stock X-Tol per roll when using X-Tol 1+1 diluted, one shot.
I was a little confused with your references to EI and the yellow filter. Was the EI you used intended to take into account the filter factor, or did you meter through the filter? If the latter, you will probably be fine anyways - TMY-2 can handle a lot of over-exposure.
By the way, the spectral response of TMY-2 is such that you may feel there is less need for a yellow filter.

Puma · May 17, 2017

I used the regular tmax developer. I'll try xtol after I use this whole bottle. I bought 20 rolls of tmax to try so hopefully I can nail it.

I just finished developing the ei 200 roll. I went with the 30 seconds of gentle agitation, and one gentle each thirty seconds. I also used distilled water to make my developer just because I had some. My stop bath was ten seconds. I use two bath fixing and did a total of ten minutes (per clip test). No pink stain

While I don't really inspect negatives much before placing them in the shower to dry, the last shot on the roll looked good, although it was into the bright sun at a soccer game. Maybe a little overdeveloped. The printing will tell.

Next time I'll mix up the 50ml developer as suggested above. Good tip, thanks!

Thanks for all the information.

Puma · May 17, 2017

You

MattKing said:
Is it T-Max developer, or T-Max RS developer and replenisher?
The 1+4 mixing instructions are easier to follow if you use smaller units. An 8 ounce tank is 236 ml. So if you mix it 50 ml stock + 200 ml water(250 ml in total) it will work well. Don't overflow your tank though - you want at least a little air in there, so the developer is able to "slosh".
Assuming T-Max developer, the Kodak datasheet (j86) indicates a capacity of 16 rolls per US gallon of working strength developer (unless you wish to increase capacity by extending time). That works out to 8 US fluid ounces of working strength developer per roll. So your tank should be fine.
Kodak's agitation recommendations are more vigorous than some others. If you are going to agitate less, you will likely need to increase development times a bit to compensate. In any event, you will want to fine tune your results.
By the way, TMY-2 behaves well in all sorts of developers. If you are happy with X-Tol with your Tri-X, most likely you will be happy with X-Tol with your TMY-2.
It is the data-sheet for X-Tol (j109 - see page 2) that specifies a minimum of 100ml of stock X-Tol per roll when using X-Tol 1+1 diluted, one shot.
I was a little confused with your references to EI and the yellow filter. Was the EI you used intended to take into account the filter factor, or did you meter through the filter? If the latter, you will probably be fine anyways - TMY-2 can handle a lot of over-exposure.
By the way, the spectral response of TMY-2 is such that you may feel there is less need for a yellow filter.

You're correct, my brain confused the data sheet for tri-x and tmy-2.

I'll have to try some shots with and without a filter. Just to see.

Thanks!

mshchem · May 17, 2017

20 rolls times 36 exposures, whew! This is why I shoot 6x9 8 exposures to a 120 roll. If you used a medium yellow filter and shot at 200,you should be good. When in doubt add 10 15% to your development time. TMY 2 is very forgiving.
ALSO DON'T LOOK INTO THE SUN! YOU'LL GO BLIND OR WORSE BURN A HOLE IN THE CLOTH SHUTTER OF YOUR LEICA
Mike

Puma · May 17, 2017

mshchem said:
20 rolls times 36 exposures, whew! This is why I shoot 6x9 8 exposures to a 120 roll. If you used a medium yellow filter and shot at 200,you should be good. When in doubt add 10 15% to your development time. TMY 2 is very forgiving.
ALSO DON'T LOOK INTO THE SUN! YOU'LL GO BLIND OR WORSE BURN A HOLE IN THE CLOTH SHUTTER OF YOUR LEICA
Mike

Lol! In my defense I held my hand over my lens, guessed the exposure and zone focused so I could get my nine year old playing in a tournament soccer game. An imperative shot!

I can't shoot larger format negatives, that's like a shark tasting blood. Once I did it there's no going back. I'd end up carrying an 8x10 view camera everywhere.

Petraio Prime · May 17, 2017

pentaxuser said:
I am unsure if you are yet to use the TMax developer which I have never used and cannot comment on but if you are using Xtol then my experience with it suggests that it is sensible to stick to 4-5 inversions per 30 secs as per the Xtol instructions. I admit that this seem a lot and resembles a cocktail waiter' shake but Xtol seems to thrive on frequent and rapid inversions.

2 inversions per 30 secs would not be a disaster but cutting this to 2 inversions per minute is a fairly large reduction on Xtol's recommended inversion regime. I'd be a bit uneasy about that large a reduction in inversions

pentaxuser

I'm not sure why the type of developer would matter (Rodinal aside). I have found I get wonderful negs using two inversions (with rotation) once per minute, using a variety of developers.

bdial · May 17, 2017

The exact agitation scheme matters less than being consistent with whatever method you choose.

Petraio Prime · May 17, 2017

bdial said:
The exact agitation scheme matters less than being consistent with whatever method you choose.

I have had problems with surge-induced streaks near the sprocket holes when I used too-vigorous agitation. I use Paterson tanks.

mshchem · May 17, 2017

Puma said:
Lol! In my defense I held my hand over my lens, guessed the exposure and zone focused so I could get my nine year old playing in a tournament soccer game. An imperative shot!

I can't shoot larger format negatives, that's like a shark tasting blood. Once I did it there's no going back. I'd end up carrying an 8x10 view camera everywhere.

I have a 8x10 Deardorff, I was given an opportunity I couldn't refuse . Zone focusing rocks! Use the force and keep shooting! Contact proof your negs, there will be a prize winner there. You have it made, a great reason to take pictures. Sunny 16 exposure never fails, in daylight of any kind use your instinct, once you do one less thing to slow you down. I'm jealous, have fun! !
Best Regards Mike

tokam · May 18, 2017

Petraio Prime said:
Be sure to fill the tank all the way to the top, and use inversion agitation, no more than two inversions once or twice per minute.

If there is no air gap above the level of the developer there will be little or no circulation of the developer during inversion agitation. Fill an empty bottle with water and a bit of food dye or ink and observe the lack of turbulence when you invert the bottle

Petraio Prime said:
Fill the tank, regardless of the number of rolls. This will keep the developer from sloshing around and creating surges.

We are not making cocktails here. Two to three inversions in 5 seconds is plenty fast enough.

MattKing said:
..Don't overflow your tank though - you want at least a little air in there, so the developer is able to "slosh".

+1

Petraio Prime said:
I have had problems with surge-induced streaks near the sprocket holes when I used too-vigorous agitation. I use Paterson tanks.

With a Patterson tank, 300 ml of solution is sufficient to cover your 35mm film. This also a nice round number for calculation of your stock developer to water mix if you are developing one-shot and discarding after use. If your dilution scheme means that you won't have enough stock developer in the mixed solution. E.g. XTOL 1+3 with a minimum of 100ml of stock developer then make your total volume of solution at 400ml.

In 43 years of using Patterson tanks I have never seen surge marks near the sprocket holes. I usually develop between 18 degrees C and 21 degrees. Are you perhaps developing at high temps around 24 - 25 degrees C? I wonder if higher temps along with vigorous agitation and shorter develop times increase the likelihood of these localised overdeveloping marks around the sprocket holes?

I did have a beaut mishap with a new to me Patterson Super System tank today which I'll describe in a separate thread.

Cheers, Martin

Petraio Prime · May 18, 2017

tokam said:
If there is no air gap above the level of the developer there will be little or no circulation of the developer during inversion agitation. Fill an empty bottle with water and a bit of food dye or ink and observe the lack of turbulence when you invert the bottle

We are not making cocktails here. Two to three inversions in 5 seconds is plenty fast enough.

+1

With a Patterson tank, 300 ml of solution is sufficient to cover your 35mm film. This also a nice round number for calculation of your stock developer to water mix if you are developing one-shot and discarding after use. If your dilution scheme means that you won't have enough stock developer in the mixed solution. E.g. XTOL 1+3 with a minimum of 100ml of stock developer then make your total volume of solution at 400ml.

In 43 years of using Patterson tanks I have never seen surge marks near the sprocket holes. I usually develop between 18 degrees C and 21 degrees. Are you perhaps developing at high temps around 24 - 25 degrees C? I wonder if higher temps along with vigorous agitation and shorter develop times increase the likelihood of these localised overdeveloping marks around the sprocket holes?

I did have a beaut mishap with a new to me Patterson Super System tank today which I'll describe in a separate thread.

Cheers, Martin

I have not had surge marks in decades, since I started filling the tank almost all the way, and using gentle inversion agitation. Again, one must almost fill the tank, (not just 'cover' the film), regardless of the number of rolls.

Puma · May 20, 2017

Furthering this thread, I developed the second roll (320) today. I reduced the development time by 30 seconds to 6:15, I agitated once per minute with two gentle inversions and I think the negatives look better. I can see gentle highlights where I shot into the light. I'll print a few tonight and see what they look like.

I would post photos of prints but I'm locked out of my Flickr account due to an email change. I can't seem to contact anyone to fix it.

Thanks again!

Tmy-2 single tank and development time help

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency