TMAX400 100' roll reaching almost 300$ in Japan

Read somewhere that the TMax 400 100' roll is priced at almost 300$ in Japan.

Let's just hope that Foma doesn't follow...

NB23 said:

Read somewhere that the TMax 400 100' roll is priced at almost 300$ in Japan....

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Wow!!!!!

Bic Camera in Tokyo, $274.00.

Price jump in Australia as well. Vanbar list bulk TMax 400 at $269 and Tri-X at $155. I'm sure the situation was reversed a month or so ago with Tri-X being more expensive.

The bulk prices for Ilford 35mm is between $90 and $112 for all types. Aussie dollars, of course. These prices still make sense for bulk loaders.

Bulk prices of Kodak films are a complete mystery. Bulk 35mm and sheet film are greatly more than the competition, yet pre-rolled 35mm and 120 are competitive. I've no idea why.

As it is, I shoot little 35mm black and white since getting medium format cameras and when I do it's usually for very dim light and with TMZ gone that means Delta 3200. In sheet film Kodak has priced themselves out for my use and I'll be switching to Ilford. In 120 though I still love my Tri-X (though I also shoot Ilford 120 in all other speeds that I use.)

I imagine most sales are for pre-rolled film and bulk sales are slow. Hence, big bucks for the bulk. How many outlets -- like your neighborhood drug store -- carry bulk? It's just business. When you find a bargain, bulk up.

"It's just business" makes no sense. I could understand "not enough demand so the price is high" except that ALL the competition is much, much less expensive, yet prices for rolled film are comparable. That's just bizarre, not "just business." It's almost like they simply don't want to bother (well, so, don't bother...) I guess someone is buying it but I can't imagine why. Even at Ilford prices I don't see much point in bulk loading anymore, the one reason that makes sense being custom, shorter loads. But for Kodak prices one might as well buy 24x rolls where available and only shoot 12 shots or whatever (or even 36x rolls - the Kodak doesn't cost much more than 24 nor does some Ilford.)

The UK English for this is

It is bad to let mug punters keep their money.

The US English...

Milking the cow

Here in Australia, they buy from IPS for Kodak stuff, so the distributor will set the base price, which then gets marked up again on top of all the other marks ups on it by the time it gets to the shop for customers to buy. What does bother me however, is that they mark up the price to the new price on -existing- in stock items that were bought at the previous price.

tokam said:

Price jump in Australia as well. Vanbar list bulk TMax 400 at $269 and Tri-X at $155. I'm sure the situation was reversed a month or so ago with Tri-X being more expensive.

The bulk prices for Ilford 35mm is between $90 and $112 for all types. Aussie dollars, of course. These prices still make sense for bulk loaders.

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Do not buy local (I work in such a place and am saying this), unless the price is competitive, or you really need it in a hurry. It's much cheaper to get in on B&H and other sources, freestyle have FIMS shipping, and I just saw B&H now starting Aus shipping at $9.75 or something which is great.

It's much better to cut out the middle man (or in reality go to a competitive middle man), the more people do that, and end up buying more rolls than they would otherwise locally, that's higher demand and more product moved for the parent companies.

Things won't change here unless people vote with their wallet and stop supporting non-competitive businesses, it's usually the distributor's fault, ie: Fujichrome being $30 to $45 per -roll- has little retail mark up on it, it's all distributor (Fuji Aus) mark up.

It's such a problem in this country that stuff made here, you can buy wholesale like car parts or snow boards, have been found to cost twice as much at local wholesale, then to buy the same stuff a U.S. retailer imported from here, shipped there, and shipped back here again.


There's no need to line the pockets of these types of businesses in a global market place, when we can better support those who make our film to a greater degree via other channels.

This makes no sense. Maybe I am missing something, but if I lived in Japan, I would just order it here

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/1378629-Kodak-TMAX-400-ISO-35mm-x-100-ft.-TMY

for a little over $100, and pay to have it shipped to me. There is no way it's going to cost $200 for shipping I wouldn't think. Well, there's a sucker born every minute (the voice of experience here :}.

Let's see now: $300 = 30,000 cents. Thus, 30,000 cents / about 700 frames = about 40+ cents per shot. My, how much of a bargain is film!

ANYONE who calls film a bargain is a damn fool. ANYONE.

This is simply a ripoff, analogous to the charges for walking into an emergency room and being charged $2,000 for twenty minutes.

And, momus, even Freestyle's 'bargain' is no bargain in other than strict, relative terms. To have to pay over USD 100 for a spool of film is plain nuts. I think that XMAS hit it correctly with both (English) colloquial versions of this hyperbolic ripoff. Period. How much does it REALLY cost to make film?

Nota Bene: And, Simon (Ilford) Galley, you are not too far behind in price. Not nice. - David Lyga

I guess they want to be out of the bulk roll market...

Economically, this makes no sense. It is FAR less expensive to produce a bulk roll than it is to supply countless cassettes. I fail to understand. - David Lyga

Damand and supply. If no one is buying bulk roll film. Then there's no point making it. I for once wouldn't buy bulk roll films. The savings are marginal and the time invested is great. Now take Japan, where people spend a lot more time in the office than they have time to bulk roll film. It's a very marginal sub business... of an already marginal business.

Our bulk price ( ex.Factory ) on all films is highly competitive, both for ILFORD and KENTMERE film, and is calculated to be sold for significantly less than the multiple of the fully finished cassetted item, that's what bulk is all about, and why we continue to sell and value the bulk film items in our range.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

However, there is one further advantage with bulk film that most overlook. Even if not less costly, you are virtually guaranteed of perfect consistency from end to end.

NO, dear Simon, you are not a bete noir here, but, really, 'highly competitive' is, by definition, a subjective assertion involving a strictly relative comparison. In objective terms, I would really like to know just how much it costs to make that film and not receive an answer hedged in a 'we are not as bad' inference. - David Lyga

David Lyga said:

.. I would really like to know just how much it costs to make that film. - David Lyga

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Not your concern.

If you deem it too expensive, don't buy it.

Sorry, Dinesh, but it is my concern, (collectively) our concern, and the concern of all people who see limits on the strict, unquestioned and perpetual validity of the free market.

We are not stopping that free market from its workings, but, assuredly, we are questioning certain aspects of it and, yes, it is my concern, as it is anyone's who wishes to make it his, or her, business. Is that assertion to hard to handle? - David Lyga

I have actually made mention of this before:

Finishing bulk film is actually a significantly more manual process than producing cassettes on a fully automated line, but it is less expensive per m2 and that it is why we correspondingly charge less for it.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

This is exactly the point -- they don't want to bother because they can't make big bucks from bulk. If I surveyed 1,000 of my neighbors and friends I'd find a few who actually buy roll film (I have a 92-year-old aunt who shoots roll film for family photos) and none who buy bulk film. Not too many firms sell horse collars any more, either. Nobody much sells high button shoes because nobody wants to wear them. The marketplace decides what is offered.

Dinesh said:

Not your concern.

If you deem it too expensive, don't buy it.

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I agree with David on this one. Of course, it's Ilford's or any film manufactures right to charge what they please. You say, don't buy it then? With that train of thought we'll all be paying $300+ per 100ft..
We see a similar thing with fuel prices. Hey, don't like the price of gas? Don't buy it! If we don't "pitch a bitch" we will all pay. When Kodak film manufacturing stops (and it will) all we'll hear about is how they couldn't survive do to low volume of sales. Duh! You want to see low? Just keep raising those prices for no apparent reason. If you have a reason for "sky-high" prices fine! Just open your books and show me exactly why and I might just keep being loyal. Otherwise I'm gone. I don't know about anyone else here, but for me at least, when I see a company doing something like this I refuse to buy any of their products. PERIOD! Not buying their products does not mute my voice as to their business style. Or lack of! Many folks here dislike Chinese film just because it's "Chinese" film. They say we should only patronize companies like Kodak or Ilford. Really? Me, I love it and hope it gets even better. The truth is I want good film as cheap as I can get it and I don't give a damn where it comes from. People who live and die by brand names are usually half dead already. Sorry, just my opinion...................JohnW

JW: yes, correct.

Simon Galley: You are a valued entity, There is no denying that truth. Ilford is (or, plural for you Brits: "are") just about the best in the business, endlessly dedicated to film and analog capture. But that does not mean that I must be enraptured with you when the need arises for dissecting certain truths.

First and foremost: don't think that you can escape criticism just because you are 'better than the rest' of the manufacturers. Comparisons with vultures do not answer the more objective queries out there and serve merely to delimit the discussion (even though such limits are a well-honed marketing tool). We (Apug and manufacturers) all know how 'desperate' we users are for film and know, with resolve, that there is simply no where else to turn for film, other than to the current marketplace. On the other hand, when we see market craziness we are more than obligated to voice our concerns, to denote the reasons for these concerns, and, yes, to voice angst. Responses such as came from Dinesh serve no valuable purpose.

We might wish to 'go beyond' the convenient 'competitive' face-saver excuses and delve, instead, into the actual cost accounting paradigm of these various manufacturers. We might want to know how much of that price is purely for the benefit of the glorious, notorious stockholders and how much is an absolutely necessary (and unavoidable) cost expenditure, based upon materials, labor, and overhead. In summation, Simon, we just might want to know what that hard-core breakdown is, and whether or not there is room, here, for reprieve, if the voices get loud enough.

Simon, we know that manufacturers are not charities and we know that pricing is derived from other than purely altruistic concerns. Simon, we want to know what you look like 'naked'. - David Lyga

Dear David,

You do not want me naked... I can absolutely assure you!

Your entitled to ask anything you want and I'm entitled to reply or not, in this case not, as I have said many times before, the consumer is the ultimate arbiter, those consumers ( that I prefer to call valued customers ) choose whether a product is right for them and whether it is a fair price to pay. We do care very passionately about analog monochrome photography and every APUGGER who reads my contributions knows our marketing policy of keeping every product made available... We are a private limited company we have no stockholders other than the 6 managers who bought the business ( unbelievably now 10 years ago on Feb 18th ).

I believe we offer great quality products, I care passionately that we look after all our customers properly, I believe we offer value for money and invest that in the future of our business and that of analog photography.

With Kind Regards

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Dinesh said:

Not your concern.

If you deem it too expensive, don't buy it.

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Apart from Simon's contribution, about the only sensible thing I've read.

Correct me if I'm missing something here -- but, people in America are belly-aching about the cost of a bulk roll of film in Japan? I don't buy too many Kodak products from Japan. What's the problem here? The Japanese market is prone to import duties, taxes, etc. and, as noted, they can order from US online retailers if they so choose.

The cost of film is what it is. People vote with their wallets and that's how we make our voices heard. Anything else is hot air.

Simon -Your level of patience is astoundingly high. What is your secret? Good genetics, zen meditation, ?? Please advise.