TMax without anti-halation dye?

I came across an old box of TMax 100 (4x5) this week -- I had bought it in 1999 on sale because the film was out-of-date -- and discovered it still had 50+ sheets of film in it. So I shot two test images last night. The negs look OK but I haven't scanned them yet. Here's my question -- the 3-minute pre-soak didn't appear to rinse off anything. This is the first time I can recall the water not being discolored. Is the anti-halation dye that new a phenomenon?

I don’t know the particulars of the way your film was handled with respect to the water soak, but the film assuredly was made with the standard anti-halation layer. Otherwise the light would bounce back from the base side and re-expose the film somewhat randomly causing a fuzzy image.

Whether you see the dye or not, is dependent on how much film was present and how much water it was dispersed into. One 4” x 5” sheet is approximately equivalent to 1/4 of a roll of film.

If I only process 1-2 sheets, the dye is so dispersed that when the lights are on the water appears nearly colorless. So I think that what you’re seeing is normal.

I always process 2 sheets, it's a 3-minute pre-soak, and the purplish color is always rather obvious. I can't think of anything I did differently (volume of water, handling, etc.) this time. I do think my FP4 sheds more color than TMax 100, but I've never had the water look clear before. I guess I'll see if the same thing happens with the next batch.

If I only process 1-2 sheets, the dye is so dispersed that when the lights are on the water appears nearly colorless. So I think that what you’re seeing is normal.

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I have some TMY, I don't recall seeing dye in the pre-soak water with it.

How were the images?

TMX had a lot of magenta dye to pull the curves into place. Did you look at your presoak water in the tray or pour it back into a galss graduate or beaker and look then?

Just a thought.

Joe

I'll scan the negs tomorrow and post the images. I thought they looked fine, but that was using a loupe on wet film over the light table. The pre-developer tray I use for soaking is white; I've become accustomed to the water always appearing tinted afterwards. Perhaps it's been clear at other times in the past and I've just failed to notice; it did jump out at me this time, though.

JOSarff said:

How were the images?

TMX had a lot of magenta dye to pull the curves into place. Did you look at your presoak water in the tray or pour it back into a galss graduate or beaker and look then?

Just a thought.

Joe

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Posted four images in the Technical gallery. Thanks.

Anti-halation backing surely was in place in 1999. Perhaps the formula changed. I don't pre-soak, but a couple of years ago I did a huge job for a photographer who wanted his Tri-X sheet film tray processed with a pre-soak. I was extremely methodical, yet sometimes the pre-soak water was tinted, sometimes not so much, sometimes not at all. Go figure.

FWIW, Tri-X 320 before the reformulation and the move to the new coating facility had an anti-halation coating that did not rinse out in the pre-soak water, or did so "transparently." The new version has an anti-halation dye that really colors the pre-soak.

I imagine something similar may have occurred with T-Max, i.e., the anti-halation coating was changed when the film production was moved to the new coating facility. The older version, which you likely have, may have had the older coating that did not color the pre-soak.

Hope this helps.

Doremus Scudder
www.DoremusScudder.com

Thanks. I was wondering if might be something along those lines.