TMax 400: Massive Dev Chart Confusion

peter k. · Sep 30, 2019

Just starting out with a new film for me, Tmax400 and going through the do, of getting our exposure and development time down. But there is a little confusion on two timings shown in the chart.
Massive Dev Chart Film Dev states:
https://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart. php?Film=%25Kodak+TMax+400%25&Developer=%25D-76%25&mdc=Search&TempUnits=F&TimeUnits=D
Film Developer Dilution ASA/ISO 35mm 120 Sheet Temp
"Kodak TMax 400 D-76 1+1 400 .... 10.25 10.25 ... 9.5 .... 68F
.Kodak TMax 400 D-76 1+1 400 ..... 9 ......... 9 ..... ..... 7 ... 75F"

Is there a different sensitivity with TMax if your not developing it at 68*?
We normally use a compensation chart for the change in time, when the development temp is higher or lower than the normal 68*. On the compensation chart if normal time was 10.25 @ 68* the adjustment for 75* would be a developing time of a little more than 7 minutes.
What is this trying to show?

BradS · Sep 30, 2019

Why not use the data sheet from Kodak ?

peter k. · Sep 30, 2019

BradS said:
Why would not use the data sheet from Kodak ?

Hahaha ahha.. NAILED me!!! From Kodak:
-------------------- 65*------68*------70* ----72* ----75*
D-76 (1:1)------11 1⁄4 ---10 1⁄4--- 9 1⁄2 -----9 -------8

Ariston · Sep 30, 2019

I don't know about that Kodak data sheet. I think they had some weird time for Tri-X... somebody mentioned that they thought it was a typo or something.

Either way, just keep notes.

MattKing · Sep 30, 2019

The Massive Developing Chart includes data from a variety of sources: manufacturers' data, plus other data submitted by (usually unidentified) others.
For the non-manufacturers' data, one has no idea of their identity or their procedures or their preferences with respect to contrast.
It is a great resource for unusual combinations of films and developers.
But if you have manufacturer's data for their own films and developers, that is a better place to start.
In the case of Kodak data, you usually have as well the additional information of the Contrast Index that the film was developed to.
And as for the Tri-X numbers in one of those datasheets, I've noted before that it is quite likely that the people who don't like the Kodak recommendation prefer a much higher Contrast Index than the one Kodak used for that datasheet - Tri-X is a film that can be used in a number of different ways.

koraks · Oct 1, 2019

MattKing said:
The Massive Developing Chart includes data from a variety of sources: manufacturers' data, plus other data submitted by (usually unidentified) others.
For the non-manufacturers' data, one has no idea of their identity or their procedures or their preferences with respect to contrast.

Yup, that's the thing. I submitted some times to MDC once and they were promptly included in the database, no questions asked. I did try to include as detailed info possible as to the nature of the resulting negatives and processing parameters, but there's only so much that is actually included in the database and shown to subsequent users.
The MDC is a great starting point, but often not more than that - it takes some trials to get from that starting point to something that works for you. We all have different approaches towards exposure, printing etc. and it's simply impossible to give ONE CORRECT processing direction to suit everyone's tastes and abilities.

Tom Kershaw · Oct 1, 2019

Some of the development times given in the XTOL documentation are slightly short for HP5 Plus. + 10% may be a good starting point.

Sirius Glass · Oct 1, 2019

Tom Kershaw said:
Some of the development times given in the XTOL documentation are slightly short for HP5 Plus. + 10% may be a good starting point.

I have had the same problem with the Massive Development Chart.

ParkerSmithPhoto · Oct 1, 2019

peter k. said:
Just starting out with a new film for me, Tmax400 and going through the do, of getting our exposure and development time down. But there is a little confusion on two timings shown in the chart.

With any new film/dev combo, it's a good idea to shoot a full roll of a test subject, then run short clip tests until you get a good, printable negative. Don't just eyeball it, PRINT IT.

I try to target grade 3 on Ilford MG paper, which requires a negative thinner than I like to see on my light box.

Once you get a good, solid negative, make one development sheet that has all of the details, not only time and temp, but also how you agitate, stop bath, fixer, everything. Use that and keep your sample negative in a sleeve so that you can always compare the rolls you just ran with the reference standard.

peter k. · Oct 1, 2019

ParkerSmithPhoto said:
With any new film/dev combo, it's a good idea to ...

Very good suggestions.. thank you. This Tmax 400 is an incredible film, so much different than the Arista 400 we have been shooting @ 200. That's been our main B&W film after Efke died, but been tempted to learn a new film, and all the discussions lately about Tmax got me caught. Having allot of fun rediscovering the basics. ;-)

ParkerSmithPhoto · Oct 1, 2019

peter k. said:
Very good suggestions.. thank you. This Tmax 400 is an incredible film, so much different than the Arista 400 we have been shooting @ 200. That's been our main B&W film after Efke died, but been tempted to learn a new film, and all the discussions lately about Tmax got me caught. Having allot of fun rediscovering the basics. ;-)

Shoot something with a lot of tones and textures, like a bookcase by smooth window light, and you will really get a good sense of what you need in a negative. TMY is a wonderful film. John Sexton uses it with good old D76 as well.

TMax 400: Massive Dev Chart Confusion

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TMax 400: Massive Dev Chart Confusion

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