TMax 400 Development Problems

Hello,

I've recently started to learn Tmax 400 and am having difficulty. There are many problems; They print very grey at grade two (no deep blacks and no good highlights), When examined under a loop the tonal range looks fantastic, almost surreally beautiful but the print does not. My film base does not appear clear, there has been a brown staining which I haven't figured out, pink staining which I remedied by re-fixing and rewashing. I used to use the old Tmax 400 with spectacular results but so far the new Tmax has been disappointing. Based on what you think of my process what do you think is wrong?

My process is;
I roll up two spool lengths of ten frames
Meter zone II, add three stops
Meter zone VII and find the difference
The difference is my luminance range which is how I determine exacting development times, Zone II minus Zone VII.
I use a changing bag indoors to load a single stainless steel reel
Prepare a cooler of water at 68 degrees
Mix TMax developer 1:4
Mix Fresh Fixer
I use a 1:4 stop bath made from Vinegar
Place all chemistry in the cooler and allow each to come to 68 degrees
Mix all of my chemistry with distilled water at room temperature
I try to be as consistent as possible with every variable I can think of.
I agitate using the recommended "extend your arm, twist vigorously 180"
I agitate exactly five times in each cycle
I store my chemistry in Grolsch swingtop bottles which appear to be airtight, are easy to pour into the tank and are easily obtainable. PLUS there's beer in them!
I have a film developing timer app on my telephone and it provides a great Pavlovian response to exacting development.

I pour in chemistry and then start the timer, agitate FIVE times and place the tank in the water to maintain exacting temperature, finish out the process agitating FIVE times every thirty seconds.

I pour in the 1:4 vinegar stop and agitate continuously for thirty seconds. I reuse stop until I can feel the change in it with my fingers.

I fix in fresh Rapidfixer with hardener for five minutes, agitating five times every thirty seconds. I reuse rapidfixer.

I wash with 68 degree TAP-WATER for thirty minutes. I fill the tank slowly with water from the cooler, then give it full force, lid off tank flowing directly into the center of the reel. About every five minutes I dump the tank and set it back under the tap.

I then fill the tank with distilled water and Photo Flo and agitate it continuouly for thirty seconds. I reuse the flo.

I then place the negatives in fixer to remove the pink stain and let them sit overnight. I then rewash, reFlo and dry them.

This is everything I can think of that I do. I probably should get some Hypo to help clear the pink stain more easily without having to refix the negatives.

Any advice you have regarding any part of my technique or thought process is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Puma

Puma:

The only step in your workflow that stands out for me is your leaving negatives in fixer overnight - that cannot be good for them!

To remove the pink colour, ry a hypo clearing agent instead.

Or just leave the pink colour in - it does no harm.

If you leave your film in fixer too long (I mean not just few minutes too long but hours and hours too long), the fixer will start to dissolve highlights. (developed silver) There is no need for this. Initial fix time of 5 minutes *may* be a tad too short.

Using regular fixer, 10 to 12 minutes is all you need. I have no experience with rapid fixer but doing this overnight is clearly too long.

If you have pink, you can wash it longer, like 30 minutes. At that point, pink should be gone. Another reason for low contrast is fogging. You are absolutely sure you are loading the film in complete darkness right?

Another weird thing is, you say film looks fine. That leaves printing issue.....

In Fixer overnight? No way. I cannot actually believe there is anything left on them but it would certainly affect highlights. The pink stain should disappear after hypo-clear and final wash. If it doesn't, it will not affect your printing, scanning, etc.

Your process should be:

ALL solutions the same temperature, and that includes the wetting agent and wash water.

Pre-wash film (optional) for a couple of minutes. Dump water.
Pour in developer.
Develop and agitate according to your normal process.
Pour out developer.
Pour in stop bath (water or stop bath, depending on your preference - both work)
Agitate continuously in stop bath for 30s to 1m.
Pour out stop bath.
Pour in fixer. (With TMax films you want to fix for about 6 minutes with rapid fixer, or 12 minutes with regular fixer)
Agitate during this process as if you were developing the film, or more. But not less.
Pour out fixer.
Wash film.
Use wetting agent. (Some people like to wipe off the excess)
Hang film to dry.
End.

If you don't have negatives that look good in a print you are either doing something wrong with exposure, or you do something wrong in processing, or both.
You can adjust exposure and development time to make the film exhibit the ultimate contrast for your developing paper and paper developer. This is possible with all films and film developer combinations.

Time to go back to photography 101:
1. Expose a roll of film in full daylight.
2. Use Sunny 16 rule. (For TMax 400, shoot at f/11 at 1/500th s)
3. Follow the manufacturer's recommendations to develop the film.
4. Make a contact sheet where you burn through the rebate of the film so that it becomes completely black at Grade 2 setting on your Variable Contrast Filter or use Grade 2 paper.
5. Do you need more contrast? Develop longer. Do you need less contrast? Develop shorter. Do you need more shadow detail? Give more exposure. Do you need less shadow detail? Give less exposure.
6. Adjust until you get it right. Make prints.

Now you have a base line to work from, and can go into things like the Zone System and expose film based on how much contrast there was in the scene, etc. But do the basics first.

Good luck!

- Thomas

If you had no problems with prints from the "old" TMax but only from the new, can you tell us whether the detailed process you describe was the same one you used for the old TMax.

While leaving negs in fixer longer than the 10-12 mins required for complete fixing isn't good, were you doing this with old TMax?

In short, we need to know exactly what changes in process, if any, you made between processing old TMax and new TMax to narrow the likely causes. This needs to include your print process as it seems from what you say that the negs look OK but not the prints.

pentaxuser

The most time that a TMAX film might require in rapid fix is maybe 10 minutes, most certainly not overnight.
"Hypo" by itself refers to fixer, not hypo clearing agent. It's an old name for Sodium Thiosulfate which is the primary chemical in non-rapid fixers.
Not sure what the brown stain might be, could be a side effect of the extreme fixing.

Other than the overnight fix, your film should be ok, if it looks good under a magnifer it should look good as a print.
A muddy print at grade two would either imply that the negative really is terrible, or that the printing process is suspect.
Causes could be;

Fogged or old paper
stale developer
cold developer
insufficient developing time
Insufficient exposure
Unsafe safelight causing fogging
Stray light causing fogging
Some combination of the above.

Why do you use hardener for a modern film like this one? Leaving films in the fixer overnight is not recommended, but with hardener it's weird.

Puma

As others have already said, stop fixing for that long. You are killing the shadows! Two times 3 minutes in rapid fixer is just fine. If the pink stain bothers you (it does no harm), get some HCA and treat the film for 2 minutes in it. Your brown stain may come from exhausted fixer. TMax is very hard on fixer. Consider two-bath fixing in fresh fixer and rotation processing to minimize chemical usage.

Thank you for all of your replies.

I don't normally fix negatives overtly long, it was just something I tried to get rid of the brown and pink stains. I showed the negatives to a Master printer who lives near me and he said they looked great but he is long retired and knows nothing of modern TMax films and that the stain reminded him of Pyro. He went on to say that he thought my film cassette was probably old and allowed for some light leak, he asked how long I'd been using this cassette and I told him about thirteen years. So I went to the photo store and got some new; cassettes, RapidFixer, hypo and some paper.

My process with the old TMax was about the same, but I was actually sloppier back then. You can see why I've been shocked at the problems I've been having. Back in the day I didn't prepare a water bath, I used a cheap thermometer and my negatives always turned out great.

So I should leave out the hardener? I've always used chemistry as the data sheets told me to, though I did leave out hypo from the new TMax because I just didn't have any.

Round two begins tonight! I'll let you know how it turns out.

Thank you,

Puma

Oops, another question: What are the advantages of leaving out the hardener?

Fixer washes out of film faster without the hardener. If you use HCA and then wash for 30 minutes, available data tells me it's sufficient though.

For what it's worth - the new TMax 400 is very very similar to the old one, with respect to exposure, and other behaviors. The only thing they really improved was to make it finer grained and a bit sharper. In all other respects it should be very much the same as the old one.

So Kodak includes the hardener if you wish to process an old style film? I didn't know that, thank you. So really hardener is completely worthless to me? I mix a whole batch of Rapidfixer and separate into small containers so they don't oxidize. I mix the stock 1:3 and 1:7 for paper. I know it's unnecessary for paper but it's in there. Will I see a difference in the quality of my prints without it? What's a good book to understand the chemical properties of all these chemicals so I can grasp the conceptual natures of each?

I have notebooks full of the old TMax negatives that look great, so while in theory it might be the same it does seem different to process. I never used hypo with the old stuff and never had. I do live in a completely different area with unique water and the washing stage could be affected by the PH and minerals that are very abundant here.

-Puma

I find most t-max films retain a pink purple stain.
Are your bad prints all from those over fixed negs? I'd say that is the trouble.
Make sure of no fogging.
Old or badly stored paper can cause print issues.
Stale print developer had me thinking some negatives were crap once.

Which fixer are you using?

If it is Kodak Rapid Fix, you can elect to do without the hardener.

In fact, if you buy the really, really large containers of it, you don't have to buy the hardener when you buy the fixer.

Otherwise, most people I know discard the hardener (be careful, it is a strong acid! - it is the reason that fixer is hard to ship).

Fixer doesn't really oxidise, so there is no need to separate it into smaller quantities

I'm assuming when you say hypo, you don't mean hypo (an older name for fixer) but rather you mean Hypo Clearing Agent.

Hypo Clearing Agent (or wash-aids from other manufacturers) have the benefit of ensuring full and complete washing with less water usage as well as aiding in the removal of the pink or blue cast from negatives. As I understand it, Hypo Clearing Agent will also assist when the water supply is not optimum.

Since you are getting weird results, you may want to take a break and recheck everything. It's not unheard of to have bad chemicals right out of a sealed and newly purchased bag. Also, the batch of film you purchased may be exposed to excessive heat before it came into your possession. How about your paper? Are they fresh?

I think, it is important for you to determine where the problem is by figuring out if the problem is in negative or printing first - for sure. If an experienced (but retired) person said your negative looks fine, I am inclined to believe he knows what he is talking about. Then the issue is on printing side. We have been talking as if neg is the issue but it may not be....

Does your chemical work fine for film other than Tmax? Is buying fresh film from other vendor out of question? How about mixing fresh batch of chems?

I've only used new Tmax 400. If anything, this is a contrasty film. I never had low contrast and foggy results. You should be able to tell this by looking at your neg on light box or something.

You may be right about the printing.

But, you still shouldn't fix over night. And a brown stain on the film is definitely not normal. Far from it.
A properly fixed and washed TMax negative should be perfectly clear without any stain at all. Pink, purple, or brown.

- Thomas

tkamiya said:

Since you are getting weird results, you may want to take a break and recheck everything. It's not unheard of to have bad chemicals right out of a sealed and newly purchased bag. Also, the batch of film you purchased may be exposed to excessive heat before it came into your possession. How about your paper? Are they fresh?

I think, it is important for you to determine where the problem is by figuring out if the problem is in negative or printing first - for sure. If an experienced (but retired) person said your negative looks fine, I am inclined to believe he knows what he is talking about. Then the issue is on printing side. We have been talking as if neg is the issue but it may not be....

Does your chemical work fine for film other than Tmax? Is buying fresh film from other vendor out of question? How about mixing fresh batch of chems?

I've only used new Tmax 400. If anything, this is a contrasty film. I never had low contrast and foggy results. You should be able to tell this by looking at your neg on light box or something.

Click to expand...

Thomas....

All of my Tmax400 film has bluish, purplish cast. Perfectly translucent with no "stain" what so ever but it has this certain tint in the base. I wonder if this is what OP is talking about, partly....

Interesting. Mine are perfectly clear. No color. Just clear. A vague hint of a color like that might have to do with what color the actual film base is, and it's nothing to worry about.
A brown stain, however, like the OP suggests, is definitely NOT normal.

I can see leaving your film in fixer for 5 minutes maybe 10 tops but overnight!

Jeff

Just a thought.... When I leave developers overnight, they turn brown. Maybe, just maybe... OP somehow gets traces of developer on film while handling after it's been washed? I'm purely guessing at this point....

OP, can you scan the film and post the result?

When I soaked overnight I cut them film into two pieces so I could see if it made any difference. the soaked negatives look fantastic in comparison to the unsoaked or any other negative I've made in the past in terms of tonal range. I have a light box and they gleam so maybe something was up with printing them. I ordered another 100 foot roll and I'll compare that variable too along with the current changes.

Thank you again,

Puma

Thomas Bertilsson said:

And a brown stain on the film is definitely not normal. Far from it.
A properly fixed and washed TMax negative should be perfectly clear without any stain at all. Pink, purple, or brown.

- Thomas

Click to expand...

I thought he was using a pyro developer with the description given for the negatives, but I see it's T-MAX 1:4. Very strange.