TLR's With a Built in Light Meter

kyler. · Mar 25, 2011

Hi everyone,
I am just getting into medium format and am considering making a purchase within the next couple of months.
Right now I am borrowing my friends Rolleiflex 2.8GX and I am loving it.
It's well built, a great lens, and an overall awesome camera.
I have decided that I want my first MF camera to be a TLR.
For me a built in light meter is essential. I would kjust but my one 2.8GX but they are very expensive. Can you guys recommend me a good TLR with a built in light meter that isn't 3500?

Thanks,
Kyle

2F/2F · Mar 25, 2011

Mamiya TLR's. You not only get the option of a few TTL (through the viewing lens, of course, not the taking lens) metering finders, but you also get the most versatile TLR system ever made, IMHO. The lenses are great –*all seven of them. The system is inexpensive too (no more than a few hundred dollars for a nice kit, and less fairly commonly, for a simple kit).

But they are definitely not as compact as a Rollei or similar camera. And they are "more manual," and not as quick for some things. For instance, only higher end models (starting with 3's instead of 2's) have auto shutter cocking, and aperture and shutter speed are set just like with a large format camera, not like with the quick, smooth dials of the Rollei.

BobD · Mar 25, 2011

The Yashica 124G has a built-in meter. So do all the earlier Yashica TLRs with "LM"
in their name.

Dan Daniel · Mar 25, 2011

Older Yashicas with LM (or EM) in the name have selenium meter cells, and are almost 50 years old. I haven't seen one that works, but maybe there are some out there still working? The meter is also uncoupled.

Yashica-Mat 124 and 124G have CdS meters. There are some Minolta Autocords with meters; again, the early LVS is selenium, usually dead, and uncoupled. Later ones are CdS but I don't know if they are coupled or not.

Rolleiflexes from (late) C through F have models with meters.

Pgeobc · Mar 25, 2011

One of the older model Rolleis, like the E or F, should do the job. That is, assuming you buy a model with a light meter and it still works. I hear that here is a place in Germany that can fix malfunctioning old Rollei light meters. I have a GX and an E. The E has the 3.5 Schneider Xenotar, which is their version of the 3.5 Planar. Good camera, good lens, much fun. The GX is incredible, though, but it is a 75th gold edition and will never see extreme amounts of use. There are a couple of GXs on KEH right now that are under that $3500 mark that you mentioned.

piu58 · Mar 27, 2011

I have a Flex 3,5F and the 50year old meter works fine.

benjiboy · Mar 27, 2011

I shouldn't worry too much about TLRs built in light meters because although it seems like a good idea on the face of it in reality they are either usually Selenium where in most cases the cell has aged and isn't accurate any more or Cds ones where the PX625 mercury battery is no longer available. It's much better to use a modern hand held light meter with them IMO.

John Koehrer · Mar 27, 2011

+1 with Beniboy's comment

Ian Grant · Mar 27, 2011

Initially i thought like Ben when I got my Yashicamat 124, so i didn't use the camera's meter as I usually have a spotmeter or another meter with me.

However I've been surprised to find that the camera's Cds meter is remarkably accurate and so I do use it now, there is a knack to using on-camera meters but having owned and worn out a Zenit E as a teenager and also using an M3 with a Leica-meter I find it second nature.

On the other hand I also use a Rolleiflex 3.6E with no meter when in the UK and it doesn't bother me I find both TLR's quick and easy to use.

It's more important to get a good TLR, a built in meter's a bonus but not necessary and stay away from selenium ones

Ian

Sirius Glass · Mar 27, 2011

benjiboy said:
I shouldn't worry too much about TLRs built in light meters because although it seems like a good idea on the face of it in reality they are either usually Selenium where in most cases the cell has aged and isn't accurate any more or Cds ones where the PX625 mercury battery is no longer available. It's much better to use a modern hand held light meter with them IMO.

I had a Mamiya C-330 with a Porroflex prism. The Porroflex prism had a built in CDS light meter that was not at all accurate and served as ballast.

I recommend following benjiboy's last sentence.

Steve

CGW · Mar 27, 2011

Get a reasonably new incident meter. The reflective meters in old TLRs are just not that accurate, get fooled by backlighting and/or highly reflective surfaces, and crap out in low light.

Ian Grant · Mar 27, 2011

CGW said:
Get a reasonably new incident meter. The reflective meters in old TLRs are just not that accurate, get fooled by backlighting and/or highly reflective surfaces, and crap out in low light.

My experience is yes that could be the case, but you quickly learn to overcome those hurdles.

All meters need a degree of operator interpretation and sometimes exposure adjustment depending on the lighting conditions. My Yashicamat 124's meter reads to about 1/3rd of a stop of my Luna Pro's or Spotmeters, the secret is you don't always point the meter at the subject

Ian

CGW · Mar 27, 2011

Ian Grant said:
My experience is yes that could be the case, but you quickly learn to overcome those hurdles.

All meters need a degree of operator interpretation and sometimes exposure adjustment depending on the lighting conditions. My Yashicamat 124's meter reads to about 1/3rd of a stop of my Luna Pro's or Spotmeters, the secret is you don't always point the meter at the subject

Ian

You "overcome" those hurdles with the purchase of an incident meter, not by guessing, however informed you might convince yourself that is. It's all about consistency and you won't get that without an accurate exposure baseline--something a tired reflective meter won't deliver.

Sirius Glass · Mar 27, 2011

CGW said:
You "overcome" those hurdles with the purchase of an incident meter, not by guessing, however informed you might convince yourself that is. It's all about consistency and you won't get that without an accurate exposure baseline--something a tired reflective meter won't deliver.

Oh, like using an incident meter when the scene is mostly light or mostly dark?

There are no silver bullets. Knowledge of proper use to avoid Operated Assisted Failures [OAF*] is a must!

Steve

* Usage: The oaf screwed up again!

CGW · Mar 27, 2011

Oh, like using an incident meter when the scene is mostly light or mostly dark?

We're just talking "working" and "accurate" meters. I am, at least.

kyler. · Mar 27, 2011

Thanks guys for all the response,

I am actually warming up to the idea of using a hand held meter.
It doesn't seem that annoying, and it will help me be able to eventually not even need a meter.

So what is the best hand held meter these days?

-Kyle

whlogan · Mar 27, 2011

I'm with Ben, tho the Rollei 3.f F and/or 3.5-2.8e models with Gossen meters are real good
Logan

Dan Daniel · Mar 28, 2011

There are a lot of good meters these days. What's your budget? What type of meter, incident, reflective, spot? Combo? Do you need low light ability? You can get a Gossen Pilot 2 on eBay for maybe $20-30. You can get a state of the art of everything from Sekonic for hundreds. As with asking about cameras, the one that works well for a person is the best...

P C Headland · Mar 28, 2011

Dan Daniel said:
Older Yashicas with LM (or EM) in the name have selenium meter cells, and are almost 50 years old. I haven't seen one that works, but maybe there are some out there still working? .....

Mine works! It does read (consistently) about one stop under, but it does work.

I'd agree though to concentrate on getting a good camera, and buying a handheld meter. You could even get a little Voigtländer VC meter if size was an issue.

benjiboy · Mar 28, 2011

Once you own a separate hand held light meter you can use it with any camera you own now or in the future and there are very few TLR built in meters you can take incidental light readings with, I.M.O, if photography isn't just a passing fancy a hand held one is a very good investment.

Ian Grant · Mar 28, 2011

benjiboy said:
Once you own a separate hand held light meter you can use it with any camera you own now or in the future and there are very few TLR built in meters you can take incidental light readings with, I.M.O, if photography isn't just a passing fancy a hand held one is a very good investment.

A hand held meter's probably one of the best investments a photographer can make after a decent camera.

CGW said:
Oh, like using an incident meter when the scene is mostly light or mostly dark?

We're just talking "working" and "accurate" meters. I am, at least.

If a TLR comes with a working and accurate meter then there's no reason not to use it, regardless of when the camera was made.

Unless you're using an incident meter then any meter is dependent on operator skill & interpretation anyway, regardless of whether it's hand held, TTL metering or an on camera meters. There's no guessing involved.

Ian

benjiboy · Mar 28, 2011

CGW · Mar 28, 2011

If a TLR comes with a working and accurate meter then there's no reason not to use it, regardless of when the camera was made.

That's increasingly unlikely given the age and battery requirements of some of these relics, apart from shutter accuracy issues. Since film and processing aren't getting any cheaper or easier to access, why not go for the accuracy of an incident meter? None of the meters in old TLRs were ever renowned for their accuracy.

zesbaugh · Mar 28, 2011

That's increasingly unlikely given the age and battery requirements of some of these relics, apart from shutter accuracy issues. Since film and processing aren't getting any cheaper or easier to access, why not go for the accuracy of an incident meter? None of the meters in old TLRs were ever renowned for their accuracy.

My 44LM meter is right on the money 50+ years later, though this may be a happy accident coupled with slow shutter speeds. Beat to hell and back again, but the results show no sign of it's former abuse.

That being said I wouldn't count on luck a second time, YMMV.

Sirius Glass · Mar 28, 2011

I picked up a Gossen Luna Lux SBC with the case from KEH.com for around $100 US. In addition to the usual light meter features, it also has the features to allow compensation for filters and the Zone System. That will allow for future growth to using filters. And later, if you choose, you can use it for the Zone System without selling one light meter and buying another later.

Steve

TLR's With a Built in Light Meter

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