TLR Lens Coverage

Katmandaddy · Apr 5, 2017

if there's a thread I can't find it. Apologies if I missed it.
I wish to repurpose a TLR lens (temporarily - I promise not to destroy it.) for use on am experimental fixed focus camera using a 6x9 120 flim holder like a horsman style for a graflex back.
I'd like it to be a WIDE view so I was thinking a 55mm from a Mamiya 220/320 style interchangeble lens holder.
Question: since those lenses only needed to cover 6x6 will one cover 6x9 focused at infinity?
The lens will focus close so it has to have some images circle to use. Right??!!

Prest_400 · Apr 5, 2017

Posting late here but I recall someone mounting a 80 2.8 Xenotar from a Rollei and using it for 6x9. Covered it almost with just vignetting at the edges.
Probably you will see a similar circle of coverage with the extreme corners dark

Leigh B · Apr 5, 2017

Why not use a 50mm or 55mm lens designed for LF?

Coverage (image circle) is related to intended film format.

- Leigh

Katmandaddy · Apr 5, 2017

Cost. Size, perhaps.

mrosenlof · Apr 5, 2017

I would be very surprised if the Mamiya 55mm for TLR would cover 6x9 at infinity. The nature of not covering varies. You might get illuminated to the corners with poor sharpness, or you might get dark corners. It is a nice lens on the TLR.

Katmandaddy · Apr 5, 2017

Thanks to all,

ransel · Apr 7, 2017

I have used the 80mm f/2.8 Mamiya TLR taking lens on my Graflex 2X3 Crown Graphic and it covered just fine. Don't know if the 55mm would cover.

Jojje · Apr 7, 2017

I once experimented out of curiosity with Mamiya lenses and a repro camera and found out that their coverage is huge. 9 x 12 (cm) easily with 105 mm, propably 55 too... If my memory serves me right, it happened in last century, of course.

darkroommike · Apr 8, 2017

The 2x3 and 6x7 press camera lenses can be had cheaply and have much nicer coverage. Examples would be the 50mm for the Mamiya Press of the 58/60mm for the Rapid Omegas. The are all a bit of a pain to use since the shutters are not made to stay open ("Press to Focus") when focusing but you can always shift the shutter speed to "T", focus, close the shutter, and then, hopefully!" change the shutter speed back to whatever shutter speed is required for proper exposure.

ic-racer · Apr 8, 2017

The lens will focus close so it has to have some images circle to use. Right??!!

The image circle of a lens is SMALLEST at infinity. You have it reversed in your thinking. For the price of a Mamiya 55mm you can just get a 6x9 format lens.

Dan Fromm · Apr 9, 2017

darkroommike said:
The 2x3 and 6x7 press camera lenses can be had cheaply and have much nicer coverage. Examples would be the 50mm for the Mamiya Press of the 58/60mm for the Rapid Omegas. The are all a bit of a pain to use since the shutters are not made to stay open ("Press to Focus") when focusing but you can always shift the shutter speed to "T", focus, close the shutter, and then, hopefully!" change the shutter speed back to whatever shutter speed is required for proper exposure.

Mike, you're mistaken about 58/5.6 and 60/5.6 Koni Omegas and Omegons. They're fine lenses and cover 2x3 but are hard to put to use on other cameras.

Their native shutters have a "B" setting but not "T" and don't have cable release sockets and don't have press focus. They were made for Koni-Omega/Rapid Omega rangefinder cameras and the Omegaflex TLR. Focusing through the lens isn't needed and isn't offered.

The shutters have a linkage at the back that connects to a mating linkage in the camera body. The shutter is released from the body. It is cocked by the body too, but the cocking lever is accessible from the front. The retaining ring at the rear of the shutter holds the assembly together. For me, putting everything back together after I'd removed the retaining ring was difficult.

To be usable the lenses have to be reshuttered. The 58's cells will go safely into a #0 Press shutter, the 60's rear cell will press hard on a #0 Press shutter's aperture and shutter blades so a 60 must be reshuttered in a cock-and-shoot #0. Even free they're not cheap.

OP, your question is an old one and the right answer has always been "won't work, don't bother." There's a reason that those of us who shoot 2x3 don't use w/a lenses made for Mamiya TLRs. They're inexpensive, true, so very appealing but they don't cover the format.

darkroommike · Apr 9, 2017

Dan Fromm said:
Mike, you're mistaken about 58/5.6 and 60/5.6 Koni Omegas and Omegons. They're fine lenses and cover 2x3 but are hard to put to use on other cameras.

Their native shutters have a "B" setting but not "T" and don't have cable release sockets and don't have press focus. They were made for Koni-Omega/Rapid Omega rangefinder cameras and the Omegaflex TLR. Focusing through the lens isn't needed and isn't offered.

The shutters have a linkage at the back that connects to a mating linkage in the camera body. The shutter is released from the body. It is cocked by the body too, but the cocking lever is accessible from the front. The retaining ring at the rear of the shutter holds the assembly together. For me, putting everything back together after I'd removed the retaining ring was difficult.

To be usable the lenses have to be reshuttered. The 58's cells will go safely into a #0 Press shutter, the 60's rear cell will press hard on a #0 Press shutter's aperture and shutter blades so a 60 must be reshuttered in a cock-and-shoot #0. Even free they're not cheap.

OP, your question is an old one and the right answer has always been "won't work, don't bother." There's a reason that those of us who shoot 2x3 don't use w/a lenses made for Mamiya TLRs. They're inexpensive, true, so very appealing but they don't cover the format.

I think I said "pain to use" as well as "will probably cover". I have both press and standard #0 shutters I could transfer the elements to but wouldn't bother unless really hard up for a w.a. lens. There are, as you and others have said better choices. And you are right, I did confuse the Koni's with other w.a. press lenses, I haven't used them in years. I picked up a used Century Graphic a few years back.

Katmandaddy · Apr 10, 2017

ic-racer said:
The lens will focus close so it has to have some images circle to use. Right??!!

The image circle of a lens is SMALLEST at infinity. You have it reversed in your thinking. For the price of a Mamiya 55mm you can just get a 6x9 format lens.

Ic, you bet. Of course. Was scratching my head for a long time thinking about that. Must have scratched too hard.thanks.

Katmandaddy · Apr 10, 2017

ic-racer said:
The lens will focus close so it has to have some images circle to use. Right??!!

The image circle of a lens is SMALLEST at infinity. You have it reversed in your thinking. For the price of a Mamiya 55mm you can just get a 6x9 format lens.

Katmandaddy · Apr 10, 2017

Ic
Of course. Was scratching my head a long tIme on that. Must have scratched too hard. lol. Thanks.

locutus · Apr 10, 2017

Isn't getting one of these far more practical? :
http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Tokyo-kogaku...522742?hash=item361457a736:g:ySAAAOSw5cNYSTb7

Covers (with a bit of excess), sharp, has a shutter and is super simple to mount on anything homebrew.

The 75mm Topcor can be found even cheaper...

And at that price you'd wouldn't even spend that much more then on a TLR to butcher.

Katmandaddy · Apr 10, 2017

locutus said:
Isn't getting one of these far more practical? :
http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Tokyo-kogaku...522742?hash=item361457a736:g:ySAAAOSw5cNYSTb7

Covers (with a bit of excess), sharp, has a shutter and is super simple to mount on anything homebrew.

The 75mm Topcor can be found even cheaper...

And at that price you'd wouldn't even spend that much more then on a TLR to butcher.

Katmandaddy · Apr 10, 2017

locutus said:
Isn't getting one of these far more practical? :
http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Tokyo-kogaku...522742?hash=item361457a736:g:ySAAAOSw5cNYSTb7

Covers (with a bit of excess), sharp, has a shutter and is super simple to mount on anything homebrew.

The 75mm Topcor can be found even cheaper...

And at that price you'd wouldn't even spend that much more then on a TLR to butcher.

Katmandaddy · Apr 10, 2017

Locutus, I have seen every 65mm lens posted in the last month. Prices are very workable. But I want to go wider. That is why I asked about 55mm. That length - in shutter for large format - is prohibitively expensive. That is why i inquired about tlr lenses. Never used the word butcher. I am specifically looking for a lens I could lift from one source and use without modification. I would remove as is and replace if I chose.

Dan Fromm · Apr 10, 2017

cat man, see post #11 above for a discussion of how to repurpose a 58/5.6 Konica Hexanon/Omegon. I use one on a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic.

Alternatively, for a list of lenses 65 mm or shorter known (?) to cover 2x3, see my list of links at https://1drv.ms/b/s!AggQfcczvHGNkDc9td-MlQz7c43l

I don't enjoy being discouraging, but I've chased short lenses for my Graphics for years and have never found anything inexpensive and ready to use shorter than 65 mm. I wish things were otherwise.

Re butchering, my first short Konica Hexanon was a 60/5.6 ex-Koni Omega/Rapid Omega. I unscrewed the cells and put them in a lucky find of a cock-and-shoot Copal #0. Years later I was able to buy an Omegaflex 58/5.6 lens panel. Two identical 58/5.6s, one for taking, the other for viewing. The 60/5.6 cells went back in their native shutter and one of the 58s went in the #0. I still have the panel, complete with shutter and spare lens.

The only lens I've adapted via what you might call butchery was an ex-AGI F135 38/4.5 Biogon. The late Steve Grimes used a hacksaw to get the cells out of their shutter -- that's how we learned that they can be unscrewed -- and machined them to fit adapters than went into a #0. The F135 was surplus, was never going to fly again.

Katmandaddy · Apr 10, 2017

Dan Fromm said:
cat man, see post #11 above for a discussion of how to repurpose a 58/5.6 Konica Hexanon/Omegon. I use one on a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic.

Alternatively, for a list of lenses 65 mm or shorter known (?) to cover 2x3, see my list of links at https://1drv.ms/b/s!AggQfcczvHGNkDc9td-MlQz7c43l

I don't enjoy being discouraging, but I've chased short lenses for my Graphics for years and have never found anything inexpensive and ready to use shorter than 65 mm. I wish things were otherwise.

Re butchering, my first short Konica Hexanon was a 60/5.6 ex-Koni Omega/Rapid Omega. I unscrewed the cells and put them in a lucky find of a cock-and-shoot Copal #0. Years later I was able to buy an Omegaflex 58/5.6 lens panel. Two identical 58/5.6s, one for taking, the other for viewing. The 60/5.6 cells went back in their native shutter and one of the 58s went in the #0. I still have the panel, complete with shutter and spare lens.

The only lens I've adapted via what you might call butchery was an ex-AGI F135 38/4.5 Biogon. The late Steve Grimes used a hacksaw to get the cells out of their shutter -- that's how we learned that they can be unscrewed -- and machined them to fit adapters than went into a #0. The F135 was surplus, was never going to fly again.

Thanks for the information. I was hoping I could just unscrew the lens/shutter and mount it on a board. Sigh

TLR Lens Coverage

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