TLR Help

Amfooty · Sep 20, 2014

Hello,

Long story short, I am in the market for a TLR, but would like some advice on the options available. Recently a friend gave me a Rolleiflex Automat as a gift. I had the shutter cla'd, but it turns out the taking lens is pretty messed up either from separation in the rear element group or a botched repair job way back in the day. Right now my main camera is an RZ67 which I love, but it doesn't function well as an every-day carry-around camera. My dream camera is a Rolleiflex 2.8 planar, but I have nowhere near enough money to get one (college student). As of right now there are a few Rollei Xenar's floating around KEH, but I am wondering if it would be better to go with a different system entirely, or try my luck with another rollei. Lens sharpness and quality is probably the most important factor besides low weight.

My budget is in the $200-$400 range. Possibly more if anyone is interested in a hybrid tube headphone amp and ODAC ;p

The Minolta Autocord seems like an attractive option, but it seems a little hit or miss from the pictures in the flickr group. How does the Rokkor lens compare to a Zeiss Tessar or Schneider Xenar?

Any suggestions of less-well-known tlr's would be greatly appreciated as well.

Sorry if there are other threads like this.
Thanks for your time,

Amfooty

pentaxpete · Sep 20, 2014

Minolta Rokkor lens is just as good -- it's the PHOTOGRAPHER's SKILLS that is 'Hit and Miss' !

snapguy · Sep 20, 2014

the box

I used a Rolleiflex f3.5 professionally in the 1960s and a Yashicamat in the 1970s. Recently I made large b&w prints from the negs and sold them at a local art gallery and I promise you -- you won't see any difference in quality in the two. The 2.8 Rollie is a "cool" looking camera, for sure, but buying one won't improve you photos. You'd be so worried you'd damage your too-expensive camera, or get it rained on, that your brain would turn into oatmeal. Buy what you can afford and have a ball.

Chrismat · Sep 20, 2014

The Autocord has a great lens, the downside is the sliding focusing knob, with age it can get stiff and many have been broken off by people trying to force it. It also didn't help that the focusing knob was made from a very cheap metal. It's still a great camera, though. I had one and I purchased a custom built knob that was much stronger and had it installed when I had mine cla'd. Kind of sorry I ended up selling it. Make sure that the one you may be interested in has a focus knob that moves easily. Karl Bryan in Oregon does Autocord clas and I believe he makes replacement focusing knobs.

You might want to try another Automat if $200-$400 is your price range, but it will probably need a cla. Rolleicords are good, too. If you want to purchase a tlr already cla'd, I believe that former Yashica tech Mark Hama has some for sale within your price range. I've used numerous Yashica tlrs, and have always been happy with them, however, they tend to flare. The cure is to flock the inside chamber, it makes a big difference.

Chris

Ian Grant · Sep 20, 2014

I have a few TLRs that I use regularly, my best is a mint Rolleiflex 3.5 E2 non meter version and a Xenotar.

However I love my Automat which I bought at a flea market last year the Opton Tessar is excellent, but the Xpres lens on my Microcord (a British made Rolleicord) is slightly a better lens.

I also use a Yashicamat 124 when in Turkey and that gives great results as well. On your budget you can find an excellent TLR. just take care and shop around.

Ian

one90guy · Sep 20, 2014

I have a Yashica A and a Rolleicord lll which makes photos that please me. I got both from the original owner and have run a bunch of rolls through both with no problems. The Rolleicord is my favorite because of the shutter release. Good luck in your search.

David

JW PHOTO · Sep 20, 2014

I have Yashicamat's, Rolleiflex's(Planars & Xenotars) and one lonely Minolta Autocord and they're all very good. I like my Rollei cameras, but if I were in your shoes I'd try to find an Autocord with smooth focusing and not beat to pieces. I actually think the Rokkor(red triangle) lens is as good as anything I have used. I could get by just fine with one and in some respects like the Autocords handling over the Rollei. The trouble is that Autocords in nice condition aren't cheap either, but you got to start somewhere I guess. What is wrong with your taking lens on the Rollei? The taking lens has to be pretty bad to (scratches or nicks) make unusable. John W

Amfooty · Sep 20, 2014

JW PHOTO said:
What is wrong with your taking lens on the Rollei? The taking lens has to be pretty bad to (scratches or nicks) make unusable. John W

There doesn't seem to be a plane of sharp focus, even stopped down far enough where the lens should be good. There is also weird distortion almost like swing in large format movements on the right side of the pictures. That and it won't focus completely to infinity which is a problem.

https://flic.kr/p/pj6Fzm

Fixcinater · Sep 20, 2014

I don't know about that first one (does the camera look to have been dropped/knocked on the front standard?) but those portraits/short range images look fine to my eye.

I'm sure you are well familiar with unsharp results due to out of focus vs unsharp because something is wrong, but I can't see much wrong in those images.

Have you looked at the negatives themselves? Maybe the move from negative to digital file has caused unsharpness.

OptiKen · Sep 20, 2014

Which TLR

I have about 20 TLRs and try to use them all. So far, I've only shot with around 6-8 of them. I love the Minolta Autocord - everything works wonderfully (a stiff focus can be easily fixed starting with a hair dryer to free it and then lighter fluid or something like it (white gas, etc) to clean all of the old lube off of it) and the meter still works accurately. It takes beautiful pics.
I also like my Ciro-Flex very much and the pictures are really sharp with good contrast.
I think it's hard to go wrong especially if you pay attention to the lens on the TLR as well as the focusing screen. Really dim ones are too hard to use. That may explain my love for the Ciro-Flex.
I am definitely an amateur. Or maybe only a hobbyist. For me, the journey is more important than the final destination, although I do want to be rewarded for completing the journey with a good photograph.
Almost any TLR will produce gorgeous pictures if it is in good operating condition. The difference will mostly be with who's behind the lens.
Think of the features you want to have first to narrow your search, then hold or 'play' with different ones if you can.
Do you like the weight? Is the viewfinder easy to view through? Are controls placed 'intuitively' for you? Does it feel natural in your hands or does it feel like a brick with buttons?
The more comfortable and natural the camera is to you, the better the pictures will be as well.
Plus...
It's more fun

Amfooty · Sep 20, 2014

Thanks for all the input everyone. I really appreciate it.

I talked to Paul Ebel, and he is going to check out the optics and see if anything can be done. I think I'm just going to stick with the RZ for a while longer--all the attractive options seem to be above my budget range. Plus there doesn't seem to be any good options for the Autoflex on the 'bay, and a Sekor Z 110 2.8 was calling my name.

Hopefully someday I will be able to get a functioning TLR, but for now it isn't feasible.

As far as a Yashica mat goes, I have a friend with one and he hasn't been to happy with it. I would love one of the Rollei 3,5f models, but they go for quite a bit more than I can spare. A C330 would be cool, but it doesn't make much sense given how far I am invested in the RZ system.

I'm sure you are well familiar with unsharp results due to out of focus vs unsharp because something is wrong, but I can't see much wrong in those images.

Have you looked at the negatives themselves? Maybe the move from negative to digital file has caused unsharpness.

It is pretty apparent on the negatives. I tried printing them and wasn't pleased with the results. Those were all shot at f/16+. The fringing and distortion gets pretty bad once you get into the f/8 range, and it is almost unusable by f/3.5.

Jeff Kubach · Sep 20, 2014

All TLRs are good, I love my Rolleiflex 2.8.

Jeff

totalamateur · Sep 20, 2014

I've shot a a rollieflex, a yashicamat and a mamiya C2. The rollei carries better, but the mamiya is much more versatile. I grab the Mamiya before I grab anything else. you can pick them up on ebay within your budget. The yashicas aren't horrid, but nothing compared to the mamiya. Plus the abiity to swap lenses, particularly to the wider ones ( the longer focus lenses aren't much to write home about). Grab any of the mamiyas, they're all pretty good.

MattKing · Sep 21, 2014

A Mamiya C220 or C330 with two lenses makes for an amazingly compact and versatile two lens kit - my 65mm and 135mm tandem works well for me.

fotch · Sep 21, 2014

The Minolta has a great lens stuck on an inferior body. Low cost Yashica's are good, my choice for a TLR is Mamiya C330, rugged, good lens, downside, a bit bulky & heavy for a walk around camera. Good luck.

Brian Legge · Sep 21, 2014

Aside from the fragile lever, what is inferior about the Autocord? It seems well constructed to me...

hsandler · Sep 21, 2014

Don't overlook the Ricoh Diacord L. Good tessar lens, unique focus lever, well built and i expensive.

Too old to care · Sep 21, 2014

I made my living with Mamiya's for years, my last one a C330f. I realize they are a bit different in what you already have experience with, but they are also more versatile. With the bellows there is no need for close up attachments, and they allow for easy double exposures. That is the main reason I chose them to work with over other brands. The prices are not bad either, but finding one that has not had thousands of rolls of film through them may be difficult. Good luck with your hunt.

JW PHOTO · Sep 21, 2014

hsandler said:
Don't overlook the Ricoh Diacord L. Good tessar lens, unique focus lever, well built and i expensive.

Agree! I fixed the shutter on a straight Diacord(no meter) for my friend and ran it through its paces. I was very impressed with it as far as handling. The rocker style focusing is better than Rollei, Minolta and Yashica combined. The lens is no dog either, but I still like the Rokkor on the Autocord, but that's just me I guess. The nice thing about the Diacord L is the price. John W

grahamp · Sep 22, 2014

If you want a compact walking around camera, then the Rollei, Rolleicord, YashicaMat, Autocord, or even an MPP, etc are all good choices. They mostly copy the Rollei pattern for the controls for film advance, focus, and shutter release. If you have problems with that, you will likely not like any!

If I had to pare down to just one camera, this is the design I'd use. If you can live with the separate shutter cocking, then Rolleicords could be a good choice. A plain YashicaMat with a Yashinon lens is decent once you stop down a little.

Maybe a Mamiya C220/220f, but once you look at the C33/C330 series you are getting more weight and a larger camera.

The description of the problem with your camera sounds like a case of a distorted lens panel. If you have focus issues on the edge of the frame, the lens centering is probably off, either because the lens was badly reassembled, or the front panel is slightly out of true. A misplaced lens element should be correctable. Impact damage on the lens panel, possibly not.

smolk · Sep 22, 2014

You do not need the Rolleiflex 2.8F Planar to get the same quality of sharpness and sturdy body. The 2.8C, D and E are as sharp, and the Xenotar is as good as the Planar, but these models can be had for far less.
These models are indeed sharper than others I tried, but it has also widely, and rightly, been reported that for portraits a Tessar or Xenar-design might be better.
Stopped down, there will be little difference between the best of the rest and the Rolleiflex.
Note that f2.8 and 1/500 can both come in handy.

GRHazelton · Sep 22, 2014

My Brother had a Ricoh Diacord many years ago. It was a fine camera, sharp lens, auto film stop, but IIRC manual shutter cocking and no double exposure prevention. I have a YashicaMat 124G; while I am sure that it doesn't operate as smoothly as a Rolleiflex, and it certainly lacks the Rollei's cachet, it does excellent work, and can be had for far, far less than a Rollei. On my example the battery "hatch" for the coupled CdS meter won't unscrew, but since it needs a mercury cell I just use a hand held meter. butkus.org/chinon, that wonderful site, has the instruction manual so you can get some idea of the operation. One little oddity: it seems that if "M" synclever is selected AND the self-timer is wound the shutter jams up. Some users have gone so far as to glue the sync lever in the "X" position.

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