TLR focussing screens: When did bright begin?

meltronic · Feb 22, 2006

My only TLR is a Rolleiflex Standard, vintage 1933, with a really dim focussing glass. I like the other operations of this camera and the TLR design for taking quiet candid shots. I'd like to use a Rolleiflex or Ikoflex with a brighter screen, and am wondering how old I can go, and still expect a bright screen.

Is a camera from the 1940s or 50s noticeably brighter than those of the 30s?

Is there a big difference from maker to maker?

Thanks for any light you can shed!

Matt

Jeremy · Feb 22, 2006

You can always get a SatinSnow glass made for your rolleiflex... it will be quite a bit brighter than your OEM screen. Check out Dave's webpage: www.satinsnowglass.com

rjs003 · Feb 22, 2006

One other thing you may want to check. I found that the mirror, of a recently purchased Yashica, was covered with the residue from cigar smoke. The inside of the viewing and taking lens were also covered with smoke residue. Cleaning these surfaces helped greatly to brighten the image in the view finder. I would also suggest a Satin Snow screen, I have put these ground glasses in my Graphlex and the difference is worth every penny.

Dave Parker · Feb 22, 2006

Thanks for the recommendations guys, the first thing I would suggest, is take the screen out of the camera and give it a good washing with warm water and a good grease cutting dish washing liquid, make sure NOT to use anything abrasive, as the possibilities of scratching are very prevelent in a screen that is this old, one of the biggest problems I see with dim viewing is there years of accumulated dirt and enviormental factors, remember your talking almost 80 years of stuff sticking to the screen, so make sure it is clean as is the mirror as rjs suggested and you will be surprised at how bright a screen this old can be..

Dave

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Feb 22, 2006

Dave, while we have your attention captive on the subject of TLR screens, can you tell me if you would manufacture a screen for a Yashica-D TLR ? I have no clue as to what the specs would be, but I thought that maybe you've done one before.

Dave Parker · Feb 22, 2006

mhv said:
Dave, while we have your attention captive on the subject of TLR screens, can you tell me if you would manufacture a screen for a Yashica-D TLR ? I have no clue as to what the specs would be, but I thought that maybe you've done one before.

Hi MHV,

As long as we get the measurments, we can pretty much produce most screens between 6cm x 6cm and 20" x 24", I don't do round screens, and have had requests for these, if I have done a Y-D TLR screen, I have not done many of them as I looked and don't have the spec's on file, but if someone wants to provide the spec's for the screen, I would be happy to add to the database, I know I have done alot of Rollei screens in the last couple of years, and it is amazing how many different sizes of screens they have had over the years..

But again, I can pretty much produce any screen that is square or rectangular, but I have run into a few that our 2mm stock is to thick for, and have not been able to pour much thinner than 2mm and have any durability ..

Dave

rjs003 · Feb 22, 2006

MHV
The pop up focusing hood on the Yashica D comes off with the removal of four screws, that hold the hood to the body of the camera. I believe the screen is held in place with either springs or screws. Been awhile since I have had one apart. Anyway not a hard job to do. Once it is out just trace it onto some card stock and send the tracing off to Dave.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Feb 22, 2006

I checked on my 'D and saw four tiny screws going through the sides of the hood. I don't have time right now to play with it, but I'll definitely look into it, granted that it could accept an SS glass, thanks for the tips guys!

Donald Qualls · Feb 22, 2006

meltronic said:
how old I can go, and still expect a bright screen.

What I've read: the first Fresnel-lens bright screen mounted in any TLR was in the Kodak Reflex II (and the Reflex IA retrofits), first sold in 1948 (for the price of a very good used car). I've got two, one in need of significant repair, the other in need of a minor adjustment...

mcgrattan · Feb 23, 2006

My Meopta Flexaret VII has a pretty bright focusing screen. I've compared it to a work colleague's fairly new Rolleiflex f3.5 Xenotar (I don't know the date but I think it's a 1960s model) which has a screen which may be a fraction darker.

It's certainly a lot brighter than the Rolleicords I've seen. It's still not ideal, however, for focusing in really low light.

Perhaps I ought to look into a Satinsnow screen.

elekm · Feb 23, 2006

You didn't mention it, but you might want to consider replacing the mirror. If it's the original, it's more than 70 years old. A new mirror, in addition to cleaning the optics and screen, will go a long way toward providing a brighter image for focusing. However, it only goes so far, and so it still won't be as bright as a TLR with a modern-day screen.

meltronic · Feb 28, 2006

Donald Qualls said:
What I've read: the first Fresnel-lens bright screen mounted in any TLR was in the Kodak Reflex II (and the Reflex IA retrofits), first sold in 1948

Thank you Donald, for a great answer. I wonder if other manufacturers followed right away. Can I expect to find a fresnel screen, for example, in any post-1950 Rolleiflex, Ikoflex, Flexarette...etc.?

I'm trying to ween myself of the trial and error method of camera buying. It's awefully expensive, which I wouldn't mind, except that I end up with a lot of okay cameras, rather than a few great cameras.

Donald Qualls · Mar 1, 2006

meltronic said:
Thank you Donald, for a great answer. I wonder if other manufacturers followed right away. Can I expect to find a fresnel screen, for example, in any post-1950 Rolleiflex, Ikoflex, Flexarette...etc.?

I don't know in detail (I know about the Reflex II because it's my favorite TLR of all of them -- likely because it was the first one I owned, thirty-some years ago), but it pretty quickly became a selling point. There surely came a point, probably before the mid-1950s, after which you couldn't sell a top-end TLR without a bright screen, and before 1970 they were even in 35 mm SLRs (which, with faster lenses, needed them relatively less).

OTOH, I can tell you with confidence that no Argoflex E model had a bright screen (I've got an EF, the last one before they started dumbing down toward a model similar in function to a Duaflex) -- and with the f/4.5 lens, it could really have used one!

OTOH, I might suggest you can get an aftermarket bright screen to fit any of those TLRs you mentioned, if you don't mind spending money; the Beattie Intenscreen is said to be available for any 6x6 going, and if not, could probably be cut to fit from a larger one. You can get one for about the price of Yet Another Plain Ground Glass TLR.

meltronic said:
I'm trying to ween myself of the trial and error method of camera buying. It's awefully expensive, which I wouldn't mind, except that I end up with a lot of okay cameras, rather than a few great cameras.

I go the other way -- probably because I can't begin to afford even one great camera, I've somehow gathered quite a flock of "surprisingly good cameras" -- like that Argoflex EF, which has a lens I'd categorize as "quite good for a triplet"; at f/12.5 (it's got the half-stop progression, for some reason) it's indistinguishable from a Tessar. Same is true of my Nettar, with its Novar-Anastigmat, just to pick a couple examples. The Anastar on my Reflex II, OTOH, is flatly superb, even wide open; I'd put it up against anything Rollei sold before 1950.

Stephanie Brim · Mar 2, 2006

The Meopta that I'm using (kinda) has a decently bright focusing screen. I believe it was made in the late 50's to early 60's.

George Papantoniou · Mar 2, 2006

meltronic said:
My only TLR is a Rolleiflex Standard, vintage 1933, with a really dim focussing glass. I like the other operations of this camera and the TLR design for taking quiet candid shots. I'd like to use a Rolleiflex or Ikoflex with a brighter screen, and am wondering how old I can go, and still expect a bright screen.

Is a camera from the 1940s or 50s noticeably brighter than those of the 30s?

Is there a big difference from maker to maker?

Thanks for any light you can shed!

Matt

My 1959 Rolleiflex 2,8 F has a bright screen. It's brighter than the one on my friend's Yashica TLR from the 80's... It's not as bright as a brand new Rolleiflex or a Hassie fitted with an acute-matte... but close enough...

avandesande · Mar 2, 2006

I had this happen to me but it was a roll of color film that was left in there to decompose. I sort of doubt the cigar thing. It was a nasty yellowish coating.

rjs003 said:
One other thing you may want to check. I found that the mirror, of a recently purchased Yashica, was covered with the residue from cigar smoke. The inside of the viewing and taking lens were also covered with smoke residue. Cleaning these surfaces helped greatly to brighten the image in the view finder. I would also suggest a Satin Snow screen, I have put these ground glasses in my Graphlex and the difference is worth every penny.

Jeremy · Mar 2, 2006

I was able to steal a fresnel screen out of a yashicamat 124 and put it into my rolleiflex last night underneath the screen (w/o moving the plane of focus) and it now looks about 3 stops brighter!

-Jeremy

Bob Marvin · Mar 31, 2006

Rollei used to make a fresnel screen that could be dropped in place over the regular screen (the name"Rolleigrid" comes to mind, but I'm not sure if that's correct). AFAIK the first "modern"--i.e. microprism --bright screen was the "Rolleiclear" introduced for the "F" Rolleiflexes. I had one installed on my 2.8E in 1965--it was a big improvement over the original. I still use this camera and have never felt the need for a brighter screen

jonnyboy · Mar 31, 2006

The Ikoflex models from about 1952/53, and on had fresnel finders. I don't believe Rollei had 'em until a number of years later. Although visibly brighter and clearer than the Rollei equivelants, they were not *intensely* so. Improvements in fresnel manufacture from all major makers eventually made such screens de rigeur in better cameras.
By the way, you can swap out the fresnel screen from a Seagull 4-B1 to use in a Rolleicord II in place of the original ground glass. Wow! What a difference! Whereas the eye-level focus feature with mirror flip-up on the Rolleicord IIa was totally useless while the original GG was in, after the fresnel retro-fit, one can use it in any decent light.

Jon
from Deepinaharta, Georgia

TLR focussing screens: When did bright begin?

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TLR focussing screens: When did bright begin?

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