TLR Focusing Technique/Tips

Ace_Caliente · Feb 4, 2023

I borrowed a Mamiya C220f for the weekend and overall had a good experience - though a good half of my shots were out of focus. I used the magnifier but it still seems really tricky to tell when something is or isn't in focus. I'm used to using the screen on my SLRs that have the circle section in the middle with some kind of focus aid (split prism it might be called?) but the C220f is just a bare screen with the magnifier. These focusing issues tended to be when I was playing around doing head and shoulder portraits. One of them was a photo with window light on an overcast day so there should've been ample light to focus with I would think.

Are there any tips or techniques to make this easier? Should I put my eye right up to the magnifier or back off a bit? Does light level have a huge impact on the ability to focus? This was with the 80mm 2.8 lens pair.

It may well have been shake too perhaps, most of the shots were hand held, though I typically had 1/125 or faster shutter speeds.

Are the waist level finders on medium format SLRs easier to use for focusing or basically the same?

Sirius Glass · Feb 4, 2023

Welcome to ~~APUG~~ Photrio!!

BrianShaw · Feb 4, 2023

Practice. Even without film, keep focusing on anything and everything. Practice.

And seriously consider a monopod or tripod.

blee1996 · Feb 4, 2023

I have not used the C220, but later Mamiya TLRs (e.g. C330S) has some of the best focus screens I have used. They are plain matte, but bright and focus snap in and out easily. There should be Mamiya focusing screens with split image in the middle circle, if that helps you.

I typically use the magnifier, and try to focus on the subject's eyes. Especially if there is reflection of light in people's eyes. Back and forth a bit until I get a pin sharp light point. Otherwise I try to use eyelash or eyeliner, or even a nose, anything that has a sharp line or point.

Steady the camera, especially TLR/SLR with waist level finder, is essential. I typically use a shorter neck strap, press the camera body tightly to my chest, and hold my breath when pressing the shutter.

grahamp · Feb 5, 2023

The C220 has a fixed screen, so you work with what you have. Get your eye to the magnifier. If you don't have normal vision - I'm myopic - use your normal correction contacts or glasses. You have to be able to focus on the screen, or the subject won't be in focus.

Rock the focus back and forth around what you think is the focus point to narrow it down. Practice on easy things first, like buildings or furniture. Then try round things like balls with limited texture. Start in good light, then see where the cut-off is in lower light, since people vary.

Personally, I find 1/125 needs support of some sort. If I am careful I can handhold unsupported at 1/500. Nothing beats a tripod, though.

albada · Feb 5, 2023

Ace_Caliente said:
Should I put my eye right up to the magnifier or back off a bit?

That's what I do. I bend over with my eye a few mm away from the magnifier, giving me the largest possible image, and my head blocks extraneous light, improving contrast on the screen. And as @grahamp said, rock the focus back and forth.

Mark

Steven Lee · Feb 5, 2023

I started with the C330 and later switched to the C220. What I discovered is that there's a significant difference in how they should be used.

The C220 must be cocked before focusing, then focused, right before pulling the trigger. If you cock after focusing, there's a decent chance of you pushing the focusing rack and ruining the focusing position.

reddesert · Feb 5, 2023

Light level does have an effect on the ability to focus. Also sometimes you may run into a camera that has a dim focusing screen because the screen is dirty or the mirror is dusty or degraded. Medium format SLRs have the same general focusing issues although they may have newer screens or split-image focusing aids.

It is worth practicing focusing on the matte part of the screen as it's a useful skill to have. You can focus back and forth while looking at some detail to narrow in on the best focus. You can practice this with the matte area of your 35mm SLR focus screen, do it without looking at the split image. It can be somewhat easier to find the best focus on the medium format camera because of the relatively smaller depth of field.

Holding a TLR and bracing it to avoid camera shake and jump when you push the release is a little different from holding an eye level SLR, so that's another thing to practice.

250swb · Feb 5, 2023

Eliminate the obvious thing first, camera shake. If you were doing portraits being close to the subject will exaggerate even the slightest camera movement but if you were doing a landscape you may not notice it. Additionally you have the narrow DOF of an 80mm lens which may make focusing difficult while you get used to it, and a lens that from my recollection is a little soft wide open, so all these things can be compounded and you end up chasing your tail. A tripod will help you identify these problems as well.

Dan Daniel · Feb 5, 2023

Along with what everyone has said, be aware of another issue with waist level finders, re-framing. After focusing with most any camera people will often fine tune their framing. This can be because they moved the camera to put the object they wanted in focus at the center for ease of focus, or simply because of final adjustments before hitting the shutter release. With a camera held to your eye, these kind of adjustments can be done with minimal movement. But with waist level finders, the camera sort of floating out there away from the body a bit, it can be easy to re-frame by moving the whole upper body in and out... and possibly lose focus. For most shots this won't be a real issue. But close up this can lead to focus changes. And with faces, we are very sensitive to eyes being in focus so small shifts can ruin the final shot. So practice focusing close and re-framing without moving the upper body back and forth. Use hands and arms only, and be prepared to check focus if you have moved any significant distance back or forth. Significant for an 80mm lens wide open meaning 1-2 inches.

This chart is from a Rolleiflex manual but same focal length. At 3.5 feet, even at f/8 there is less than 3 inches depth of field front and back, 6 inches total (the lower aperture numbers are for larger enlargements).

guangong · Feb 5, 2023

Hand held or tripod depends upon what you are shooting. 1/125 should not be a difficult. Don’t try too hard when holding a camera because this only produces more camera shake. Just relax, release the shutter and let camera do the work. Shooting with a camera is very much like firing a gun. Don’t try too hard. With practice 1/30 should be attainable for general photography.
However, if shooting architecture or certain kinds of landscapes a tripod should be considered.
For focusing, bring magnifier right up to eye.
If considering your own TLR, try something a little less cumbersome such as Minolta, Yashika, or Rollei.

Ace_Caliente · Feb 5, 2023

Thanks everyone for all of the tips and advice - looks like I have some practice ahead of me.

ic-racer · Feb 5, 2023

Focus lens, mirror or focus screen dirty or cloudy
Wrong diopter magnifier
Film not held flat
Camera out of calibration

etn · Feb 5, 2023

Ace_Caliente said:
I'm used to using the screen on my SLRs that have the circle section in the middle with some kind of focus aid (split prism it might be called?) but the C220f is just a bare screen with the magnifier.

This. In my experience with TLR's, a split screen is absolutely necessary to focus correctly at large apertures. (I know, it's not a solution to your problem...)

If you look at the pictures where you have enough light for 1/125 and enough depth of field (maybe f/5.6 or more), are those in focus?

runswithsizzers · Feb 5, 2023

Ace_Caliente said:
I borrowed a Mamiya C220f for the weekend and overall had a good experience - though a good half of my shots were out of focus. [...]
It may well have been shake too perhaps, most of the shots were hand held, though I typically had 1/125 or faster shutter speeds.

The first step in troubleshooting is going to be to determine if the problem is due to "out of focus" or if it "may well have been shake."

If NOTHING is in sharp focus, then the problem is more likely due to camera shake. If SOMETHING is in sharp focus, but not what you intended, then that is a different problem with different solutions. (of course, it could be a bit of both)

Suggest testing on tripod to eliminate camera shake, then post back.

Ace_Caliente · Feb 5, 2023

Yes the photos at f8-f11 are fine. I think I may just stick to f5.6+ for a bit to get used to the equipment.

GregY · Feb 5, 2023

I have used the Mamiya (C330) but now have a Rolleiflex. I use the strap as an integral part of the focusing...(pulling down on the strap)....so i'd be wary of shooting straight on head and shoulders photos indoors without a tripod with adult subjects....or i'd be better off standing on a chair rather than raising the camera to reframe.

Christiaan Phleger · Feb 5, 2023

I am certain on the C330 but not so certain on the C220, there is a foam rubber surround under the focussing screen frame. If this is worn or sticky it will cause substantial focussing errors, enough to question your ability. I used to use the C330 professionally, and would regularly change out that foam, once every year or so. A retiring former Mamiya factory technician passed on the knowledge to me, perhaps as a parting thank you for me consistently sending him my gear for the previous years. I would certainly at the very minimum check the focus accuracy with another ground glass up against the film plane before committing more film.

The other point I'll make as I start a cuppa about the Method of Focussing, one that as a the youngest member on the paper's staff I learned from an older photojournalist before he retired. I was always consistently amazed with his ability to nail focus on human subjects manually with such speed and precision. I mean, it was exceptionally sharp and accurate, especially for 'an old guy' (I'm now much older than when he taught me).

What he taught me is that he always ended his focussing 'stroke' on the incoming side of the focussed plane; that is, he would begin the focus with the camera being set to closer to infinity, then rack the focus 'forward' until he acquired his subject, then he would very slightly focus back in the direction of infinity (so slightly), and then make his last focus adjustment back in towards the minimum. So, from out, to in, out slightly, then in. What he explained was that by always finishing 'on the in stroke' he surmised that with this method, any slight mistake in accuracy would end with the actual focus point slightly in front rather than slightly behind the intended point of focus, and this placement in front would be less obvious or obtrusive.

I found that this method brought me more consistently sharp results no matter the gear I used.

My coffee is cool now, so I will refresh.

blee1996 · Feb 5, 2023

@Christiaan Phleger I will try out your focusing method, thanks for sharing!

Neil Grant · Feb 6, 2023

'Should I put my eye right up to the magnifier or back off a bit?'
- Ideally yes. That way extraneous light is kept from entering the viewfinder and also you a have another 'point of contact' with the camera to aid stability. If you cannot view the screen clearly (can you see its's texture or frsnel lines?) you may need to back off. The Mamiya TLR's aren't the easiest to hand hold especially if the bellows is racked out or a prism used - a side grip is very helpful in this respect. The older camera's are not so easy to focus as the latest ones, and will have had more time to develop faults too. It may be useful to do some focusing tests in bright lighting with a subject that has some depth in it. Make a note of where you pitch focus and where the camera ends up placing it. They may differ. Do different sujects and distances. Use a tripod. Good luck.

Sirius Glass · Feb 6, 2023

I suspect that there is a problem not with you but with the focusing screen. I suggest you get that checked out. If you are in British Columbia you might want to talk to @MattKing about who could do that for you.

Kino · Feb 6, 2023

Get yourself a Monopod; preferably one with a ball head. This at least should eliminate the camera shake issue and it's not as obnoxious as a tripod to carry around.

A foot strap brace works as well, but if you think a monopod draws some strange looks, wait until you pull out a foot strap brace and use it!.

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Saganich · Feb 6, 2023

I got a monopod and it wasn't any better...start with camera it seems something is off (seals mirror etc) and if that the problem nothing else will help and you will always hate MF, then practice bracing camera using body and strap, then learn to forget the magnifier (most of the time) and do that focus thing Christiaan mentioned earlier....that was spot on.

Cholentpot · Feb 6, 2023

Anything below f/8 can be tough on MF.

I jam my face right into the viewfinder with my eyeball in the magnifier. It's undignified and looks crazy but it works. I also take my time. You'll need to work very slowly.

Sirius Glass · Feb 6, 2023

A prism would provide an enlarged view without side glare and provide a three point stabilization: two hands and the forehead. And the big plus of viewing straight ahead instead of from your crotch.

TLR Focusing Technique/Tips

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