TLR Double Exposure & 35mm Adapter

allmotionisrelative · Jun 2, 2022

Dan Daniel said:
Sorry for being a bit pissy about Yashicas. I spent a lot of time learning repair on them. There are things going on inside them that are, well, not nice. But they made hundreds of thousands of them, used by students and professionals for decades, so there is a lot right about them, also.

Hearing more of how you travel, I will strongly encourage you to get a Rolleicord Va or Vb. Where it counts, it is like a Rolleiflex. The main body is a casting like a Rolleiflex. The side panels and back are the same thickness as Rolleiflexes. The focus rails the same thickness, etc. So on the gross level of 'frame' and strength, you lose little.

BUT, and this is the big BUT! The mechanics of operation are much simpler. Rolleiflexes are elegant and amazing machines. But if I was in Pakistan or eastern Washington state (e.g., nothing against 'em), and something went wrong with my camera, I'd want to have a Rolleicord, not a Rolleiflex. Because they are simpler to repair, simpler to diagnose. Even simpler to 'hack' around issues if something isn't fixable. Finding someone who can put a Rolleiflex back together right is harder and harder; I bet most machinists or watchmakers could suss out what is going on to make a Rolleicord work, and possibly correct a problem.

What you lose more than anything with the Rolleicord over the Rolleiflex is the sizzle. Just look at the strap lugs of the 'Flex versus the 'Cord. If you are status conscious and moving in circles where having the 'classic' camera is important, the 'Flex is what you want (or if you want a Xenotar or Planar). Heck, compared to any of the Yashicas, also, the Rolleicord will be a low class camera in some circles. That can be good, a bit stealth, undesirable. Tell people it's a crappy Rollei!

Oh, you also lose a half pound of weight over a Rolleiflex. Hiking, this is nice.

So, get a Rolleicord, condition dominant. Get the Rolleikin 35mm kit if carrying two types of film works for you, it's not much bigger than a deck of cards. Get the 6x4.5 16 frame kit, it's smaller than a deck of cards. And get a way to carry exposed 120 spools so that they are shielded from light; you might not be familiar with the way light can bleed in the edges as the spools bounce around.

I wonder if you have through through shooting with 35mm on a TLR. You are pretty much limited to portrait orientation.

Oh no you're not pissy at all, mate. Part of the good thing of coming to forums like this is getting first-hand knowledge from people who know what's what.

Part of my travel I do shoot portraits, so the 35mm is a great addition. I completely understand why others are ragging me about it but it works great for me.

Definitely not status conscious. I've got no truck with whatever anyone else does but it makes no difference to what I do.

Thanks for your thoughts-appreciate your advice. Good to know how much simpler Cords are to work on.

allmotionisrelative · Jun 2, 2022

Paul Howell said:
I have a lot of money with my Yashicas, shot a lot of book covers and author photos with the 124 and D. In daily use the 4 element lens are going to resolve ektachrome 100 or Tmax 100. Surprised no one has pitched the virtues of the Minolta Autocord.

I did look into the Autocord and it looks great but it doesn't have a 35mm adapter so I think that's probably why no one has suggested it since it doesn't meet the criteria.

Curious: Do you like the 124 or D better?

Dennis-B · Jun 3, 2022

allmotionisrelative said:
Appreciate that info on using it for 35mm shots. Just curious-did you find it focused well for portraits?

Using the magnifier helped, regardless the film load. However, for portraits, using 35mm, I didn't care much for the results since there wasn't quite enough lens compression @ 75mm . And with 120 film, the lens was a bit wide for head/shoulders portraits. For me, too much compromise.

While the 635 was handy for weddings, I'd already invested in a Kodak 4x5 view camera for that purpose. I had several lenses for the Kodak, including a 8.5" Commercial Ektar. I also found an older Taylor Hobson, had it reshuttered for X-sync, and used it for softer effects.

After buying a Mat 124g, I also went the Mamiya C220/330 route, which opened up endless possibilities for weddings. Later on, I went the Mamiya M645 route for weddings.

Paul Howell · Jun 3, 2022

If you want the adaptor I would get a Rolliflex or cord. I had a Yashica D, with the 3 element lens, yard sale find, already had the D and 124 with the 4 element, the 3 element version was ok stopped to F 8 or 11, really soft corners at 3.5 and the viewing lens is a 3.5 while the 4 element lens version is a 2.8. Strange how much brighter the 2.8 is. I gave the 3 element version to a friend who passed it along.

VinceInMT · Jun 3, 2022

I’ve been shooting with my Rolliecord VB for 47 years and it still works great. I had a project recently wear I needed to do double-exposures and it was my go to camera for that.

BTW, I have shot 35mm with it by loading 35mm film on a spent 120 backing sheet. It actually worked OK.

allmotionisrelative · Jun 4, 2022

VinceInMT said:
I’ve been shooting with my Rolliecord VB for 47 years and it still works great. I had a project recently wear I needed to do double-exposures and it was my go to camera for that.

BTW, I have shot 35mm with it by loading 35mm film on a spent 120 backing sheet. It actually worked OK.

Thanks that’s great to hear. Wow 47 years with the same camera is commitment!

allmotionisrelative · Jun 4, 2022

Paul Howell said:
If you want the adaptor I would get a Rolliflex or cord. I had a Yashica D, with the 3 element lens, yard sale find, already had the D and 124 with the 4 element, the 3 element version was ok stopped to F 8 or 11, really soft corners at 3.5 and the viewing lens is a 3.5 while the 4 element lens version is a 2.8. Strange how much brighter the 2.8 is. I gave the 3 element version to a friend who passed it along.

Interesting thanks for the thoughts. Yea the Yashica D is almost identical to the 635 so I imagine it would have those same issues. What did you get as a replacement?

VinceInMT · Jun 4, 2022

allmotionisrelative said:
Thanks that’s great to hear. Wow 47 years with the same camera is commitment!

My other two film cameras that I still use quite a bit are of the same vintage, Minolta SRTs. IMO, it’s a use or lose it with the old mechanical cameras. Some years ago, I hadn’t used the Rollie in a while and the shutter seemed sluggish so I “exercised” it quite a few times and it’s been fine ever since.

Dan Daniel · Jun 4, 2022

allmotionisrelative said:
Interesting thanks for the thoughts. Yea the Yashica D is almost identical to the 635 so I imagine it would have those same issues. What did you get as a replacement?

The Yashica-D originally came with the same lens(es) as the 635- the Yashikor triplet and f/3.5 viewing lens. The YashicaMat came with a Yashinon lens and an f/3.2 viewing lens. Later the viewing lens was changed to an f/2.8.

I don't know this as official information, but I think that Yashica ran out of the Yashikor lens sets near the end of the production of the TLR production life. And instead of gearing up to produce a new batch of Yashikors for a camera that they knew was declining in sales, decided to start making the Yashica-Ds with the Yashinon lenses, including the 2.8 viewing lens. There are other parts that appear to be pulled from the YashicaMats on these late Ds, like the black ring on the bottom of the camera to open the back.

So when people discuss the Yashica-D, you need to know which lens they are using, like Paul Howell made clear above.

I don't know when 635 production ended, but I have never seen a 635 with the Yashinon lenses; maybe they exist. As people keep mentioning, the Yashikor is not a top notch lens. Which doesn't mean that you can't get top notch results with it. But look into it and see if it will work for you.

For what you want, the Rolleicord will work. And a Va or Vb opens up the 6x4.5 option, 16 frames. Both the 35mm adapter kit and 6x4.5 adapter kit are small and shouldn't take up too much room in a backpack (watch when buying the 16 frame kit; the Rolleiflex T also has one but it is slightly different design and sellers often don't know which version they have).

The Rolleiflex T opens up anpother possiblity for you. An updated Tessar lens, very nice. Does 35mm and 6x4.5.

BrianShaw · Jun 4, 2022

… and a somewhat more difficult to find Va/Vb 24 adapter.

In addition to Dan’s wisdom, always double-check the frame counter with those adapter kits to make sure the correct one is included.

Paul Howell · Jun 4, 2022

I already had a D and 124, which I still have, the second D with the 3 element lens was yard sale find which I passed on to a friend who wanted to try MF. I've had my D and 124 for many years, mid 70s and they are getting creaky. I have a Kowa SL 66 SLR with I use more than a TLR so have not been in hurry to replace. If I do replace will be a Mamiya C220, lighter than the C330 and has the features I need + interchanable lens. I can see the allure of the 35mm kit, 35mm is cheaper per frame than 120, in terms of 80mm on a 35mm negative, you get the same result from simply cropping in.

Nitroplait · Jun 4, 2022

Dan Daniel said:
The Rolleiflex T opens up anpother possiblity for you. An updated Tessar lens, very nice. Does 35mm and 6x4.5.

In this thread, I have learned how my 2 post war Rolleiflexes (MX-EVS and 3.5C) can do double exposures, but I have no idea how my Rolleiflex T can do double exposure.
Can you educate me on how this is possible with the T?

BTW: the Rolleiflex T comes in both Tessar and Xenar versions - both are great.

Dan Daniel · Jun 4, 2022

Nitroplait said:
I have no idea how my Rolleiflex T can do double exposure.
Can you educate me on how this is possible with the T?

Well, I can't. I lost sight of the double exposure requirement when recommending the T. Maybe someone else knows?

summicron1 · Jun 4, 2022

allmotionisrelative said:
In theory, yes that's what I would do too. And I have a couple 35mm I like to use. But, about 6 months a year is spent traveling. I go for 1 month at a time and I only bring a backpack. So for me, every little bit matters. And because I've come to really enjoy using TLRs, I'd like to have both options available to me for different types of shooting.

I understand it's not ideal or what others would do but it's what I'm hoping to get for my purposes.

For intentional double exposures, the rolleicord is the way to go.

For keeping the kit light there are many, many excellent options for a very small 35mm camera -- the Rollei 35 is a gem and will give vastly superior usability than trying to use a 35mm adaptor in your rolleicord or whatever.

Or there is the Olympus XA -- pro-level lens quality in a very tiny kit that weighs very little and slides into your jeans pocket, takes up less space than the 35mm adaptor kit for the rollei, to be honest. Sadly, these have been discovered by kids and are, very suddenly, expensive, but the XA is still an amazing shooter.

Seriously -- keep the tools to their best use instead of trying to find a 120 that also does 35mm. You will be a lot happier with the results.

xya · Jun 4, 2022

If I understand the OP right, he uses the longer focal length of the 120 camera for portraits on 135 film. So a tiny ordinary 135 camera would not do the job. But I agree, that a tiny separate 135 camera would make things easier. There is a solution, the Konica Lexio 70, which is as small and only weighs 180 gr. https://www.135compact.com/konica_lexio_70.htm . More than half of the weight would already be compensated by not taking the adapter.

A 120 TLR not mentioned yet which had a 135 adapter available is the Weltaflex. It might not be up to a Rolleiflex, but could compete with a Rolleicord and it is ways less expensive. I have used the adapter a couple years ago, it works well in terms of an adapter. But I would still recommend a separate 135 camera.

250swb · Jun 4, 2022

The whole subject is very complicated, put a Rolleikin into a Rolleiflex/Cord and you have a fundamentally different camera with the crop factor and all, you are now shooting the equivalent of telephoto. But two things in choosing, yes the Yashicamat isn't as reliable as as flex/cord, but the lenses are superb and an equal at least of the 'cord if not the 'flex, of course at like for like apertures. I've never seen a 35mm adapter for the Yashicamat but the Rolleikin is abundant and cheap.

mshchem · Jun 4, 2022

35mm requirement really muddies the water. My first medium format was a Yashica, great camera, no idea what model. I would forget about 35mm. Buy 2 cameras for less money. I have a Mamiya 6mf, that's fun to shoot 35mm, you get a pan shot.

If you are after the portrait orientation 35mm, and 6x6, it's a Rollei of some sort, and a competent service shop to keep it in tune.

Alternative Nikon F100 and a nice freshly cleaned Yashica.

Even better a F6 or a Canon equivalent. I love autofocus

MHOFWIW,
Peace

allmotionisrelative · Jun 5, 2022

VinceInMT said:
My other two film cameras that I still use quite a bit are of the same vintage, Minolta SRTs. IMO, it’s a use or lose it with the old mechanical cameras. Some years ago, I hadn’t used the Rollie in a while and the shutter seemed sluggish so I “exercised” it quite a few times and it’s been fine ever since.

So true. I have a wonderful old Pentax. If I don’t use it for 6 months or more, it takes a bit of warming up. But it still shoots like a beauty.

allmotionisrelative · Jun 5, 2022

O

Dan Daniel said:
The Yashica-D originally came with the same lens(es) as the 635- the Yashikor triplet and f/3.5 viewing lens. The YashicaMat came with a Yashinon lens and an f/3.2 viewing lens. Later the viewing lens was changed to an f/2.8.

I don't know this as official information, but I think that Yashica ran out of the Yashikor lens sets near the end of the production of the TLR production life. And instead of gearing up to produce a new batch of Yashikors for a camera that they knew was declining in sales, decided to start making the Yashica-Ds with the Yashinon lenses, including the 2.8 viewing lens. There are other parts that appear to be pulled from the YashicaMats on these late Ds, like the black ring on the bottom of the camera to open the back.

So when people discuss the Yashica-D, you need to know which lens they are using, like Paul Howell made clear above.

I don't know when 635 production ended, but I have never seen a 635 with the Yashinon lenses; maybe they exist. As people keep mentioning, the Yashikor is not a top notch lens. Which doesn't mean that you can't get top notch results with it. But look into it and see if it will work for you.

For what you want, the Rolleicord will work. And a Va or Vb opens up the 6x4.5 option, 16 frames. Both the 35mm adapter kit and 6x4.5 adapter kit are small and shouldn't take up too much room in a backpack (watch when buying the 16 frame kit; the Rolleiflex T also has one but it is slightly different design and sellers often don't know which version they have).

The Rolleiflex T opens up anpother possiblity for you. An updated Tessar lens, very nice. Does 35mm and 6x4.5.

Thanks for the loads of great info. That’s wild about the Yashica lenses. One of my mates has a D that he’s selling and now I’m wondering what his lens is…

Paul Howell · Jun 5, 2022

Other than the dimer viewing lens, the 635 even given the soft corners will likely do rather well in 35mm mode as the corners will not show. It's only when in 6X6 that you will notice any differences when wide open. Finding a 635 with a complete 35mm kit, I guess Ebay.

TLR Double Exposure & 35mm Adapter

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