TLR Double Exposure & 35mm Adapter

allmotionisrelative · Jun 1, 2022

Hello all,
I have spent the past year playing with a Lubitel 166, Autocord, Yashica-Mat, and Rolleiflex thanks to my friends' generosity. All of them had pros and cons but were a joy to shoot on. I take a lot of travel and street photography so having waist level viewfinder for the first time was incredible. I was taking different shots and I feel like I gained some new skills.

So, I am ready to take a plunge and buy one but I'm struggling with what one. I like taking double exposures and because I travel and only bring one camera, I wanted one that had a 35mm adapter.Not looking to 'rig' a tlr to do 35mm or for sprocket pics. From what I could tell by searches, the only TLR (that's not a toy) that offers that is the Yashica 635.

I loved the Yashica-Mat I used. For those who have used both, did you feel the 635 was significantly different in terms of quality of photos?

If I missed something and there's another TLR that's decent quality that does double exposures and 35mm adapter, please let me know. Otherwise, I am officially on the hunt for a Yashica 635 with adapter!

Thanks in advance and thanks to this site I've lurked on for years for getting me in to medium format and TLRs.

Dan Daniel · Jun 2, 2022

Rollei has a 35mm kit called a Rolleikin. Both Rolleiflexes and Rolleicords are not toys.

Pretty much every post-WWII Rollei model allows for double exposure, 'Flex or 'Cord.

The 635 Yashikor lens is a triplet while the YashicaMat Yashinon is a 4-element Tessar-type design. The 635 is a side knob wind, and you need to manually cock the shutter for each shot. No double exposure protection, but just a little attention and practice in winding handles that issue. Realize that the 635 is basically a Yashica-D with 35mm ability, so you can learn a lot about it by reading about the D, also.

Personally I'd go for a Rolleicord- budget and low weight (manual lens cocking, btw)- or Rolleiflex- lens options but cost and weight- over the Yashica. But I like the Xenar, Planar, and Xenotar lenses while lots of people get great results with the 635 and its Yashikor triplet.

The most important factor in buying a TLR is condition. I'd take a clean smooth functioning 635 over a beat up hiccuping Rolleiflex 2.8F any day. The last thing you need when traveling is the constant nag of a recalcitrant camera.

Dennis-B · Jun 2, 2022

My second TLR was a Yashica 635, replacing a badly worn Minolta Autocord. I used it for weddings and portraits, but only used the 35mm adapter sparingly. The down side to 35mm was a slightly telephoto 75mm lens that wasn't what I always needed for 35. The Yashikor lens wasn't as sharp as I liked, but was adequate for the larger 120 negative. It took just a bit of practice to keep from double exposing in either format. When I made a bit of money, I traded it for a new Yashica Mat-124G.

In the last couple of years I've looked at them from a nostalgic perspective, but never had the desire to have another.

Paul Howell · Jun 2, 2022

Yaschica D, I have both the 124 and D which like the 635, A, and C require that the user to cock the shutter before tripping. Unlike the 635, A and C the D came in a 3 and 4 lens version. The D is bit lighter than the 124. The 124 is faster with the crank advance, the meter on mine is still working.

Nitroplait · Jun 2, 2022

Just a personal opinion - and I know many will disagree:

If the Yashica 635 is equipped with the triplet Yashicor lens, I'd suggest you educate yourself on the implications of that type of lens before purchase.

I had a Yashica D (with that lens) and was not impressed. There was a distinct softness until stopped down to 11 or so. I think that will be even more pronounced in the greater enlargements of a 35mm frame.
I'd say the same about a Rolleicord with a triotar as well - which I have also owned.

IMO. The 4 element Tessar type lens (yashinon, xenar etc) is much more versatile - they can have a pleasant softness wide open but will sharpen up already at 5.6 or so.

A rolleiflex/rolleicord with Rolleikin will probably be the most convenient 6x6/35mm solution, although I have no idea how to do double exposure with my Rolleiflexes.

allmotionisrelative · Jun 2, 2022

Dan Daniel said:
Rollei has a 35mm kit called a Rolleikin. Both Rolleiflexes and Rolleicords are not toys.

Pretty much every post-WWII Rollei model allows for double exposure, 'Flex or 'Cord.

The 635 Yashikor lens is a triplet while the YashicaMat Yashinon is a 4-element Tessar-type design. The 635 is a side knob wind, and you need to manually cock the shutter for each shot. No double exposure protection, but just a little attention and practice in winding handles that issue. Realize that the 635 is basically a Yashica-D with 35mm ability, so you can learn a lot about it by reading about the D, also.

Personally I'd go for a Rolleicord- budget and low weight (manual lens cocking, btw)- or Rolleiflex- lens options but cost and weight- over the Yashica. But I like the Xenar, Planar, and Xenotar lenses while lots of people get great results with the 635 and its Yashikor triplet.

The most important factor in buying a TLR is condition. I'd take a clean smooth functioning 635 over a beat up hiccuping Rolleiflex 2.8F any day. The last thing you need when traveling is the constant nag of a recalcitrant camera.

Oh interesting thanks for the info. I didn’t think I could get double exposures on a Rolleiflex. My friend told me there was a way to do it but it required some fiddling (which I wasn’t interested in).

Thanks for the tip-I’ll read up on the Yashica D and see how people feel. Sounds like the lens is disappointing from your perspective. From past experience and use, I have liked Zeiss and Planar lenses both of which I think are options on the Rollei family.

You don’t think the Rolleicord is too weak? Have read people say it’s just a crap version of the flex. I did really enjoy using the flex so I’ll look into it.

Still going to keep my eye out for the 635 because I really like Yashicas. They just feel comfortable to me. Excellent point about a getting the best condition you can…true for when you’re buying anything 50-70 years old.

Thanks again, mate!

allmotionisrelative · Jun 2, 2022

Dennis-B said:
My second TLR was a Yashica 635, replacing a badly worn Minolta Autocord. I used it for weddings and portraits, but only used the 35mm adapter sparingly. The down side to 35mm was a slightly telephoto 75mm lens that wasn't what I always needed for 35. The Yashikor lens wasn't as sharp as I liked, but was adequate for the larger 120 negative. It took just a bit of practice to keep from double exposing in either format. When I made a bit of money, I traded it for a new Yashica Mat-124G.

In the last couple of years I've looked at them from a nostalgic perspective, but never had the desire to have another.

Hmm seems to be an echoed complaint about the softness of the lens. That might be a problem for me since I do a lot of street/urban environments where I’m wanting to see the sharpness come through. Thanks for the heads up-appreciate your thoughts.

allmotionisrelative · Jun 2, 2022

Nitroplait said:
Just a personal opinion - and I know many will disagree:

If the Yashica 635 is equipped with the triplet Yashicor lens, I'd suggest you educate yourself on the implications of that type of lens before purchase.

I had a Yashica D (with that lens) and was not impressed. There was a distinct softness until stopped down to 11 or so. I think that will be even more pronounced in the greater enlargements of a 35mm frame.
I'd say the same about a Rolleicord with a triotar as well - which I have also owned.

IMO. The 4 element Tessar type lens (yashinon, xenar etc) is much more versatile - they can have a pleasant softness wide open but will sharpen up already at 5.6 or so.

A rolleiflex/rolleicord with Rolleikin will probably be the most convenient 6x6/35mm solution, although I have no idea how to do double exposure with my Rolleiflexes.

Thanks for this-I’ll read up a bit more on the lens. Might be a dealbreaker as I really don’t want soft pictures each time.

Yea I loved using the Rollei I borrowed but I couldn’t get double exposures on it so I pushed it out of the pile. May need to dig deeper to figure it out because the lens was excellent on it.

allmotionisrelative · Jun 2, 2022

Dennis-B said:
My second TLR was a Yashica 635, replacing a badly worn Minolta Autocord. I used it for weddings and portraits, but only used the 35mm adapter sparingly. The down side to 35mm was a slightly telephoto 75mm lens that wasn't what I always needed for 35. The Yashikor lens wasn't as sharp as I liked, but was adequate for the larger 120 negative. It took just a bit of practice to keep from double exposing in either format. When I made a bit of money, I traded it for a new Yashica Mat-124G.

In the last couple of years I've looked at them from a nostalgic perspective, but never had the desire to have another.

Appreciate that info on using it for 35mm shots. Just curious-did you find it focused well for portraits?

BrianShaw · Jun 2, 2022

allmotionisrelative said:
You don’t think the Rolleicord is too weak? Have read people say it’s just a crap version of the flex. I did really enjoy using the flex so I’ll look into it.

This is one of those times where the expression, "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" is appropriate. I, also, really like the Rolleicord, especially the later ones like the Vb. These later Rolleicords are quite a bit better constructed than many of the cameras previously mentioned in this thread and, while defeatured in comparison to the Rolleiflex, are quite capable of doing everything you desire with quality results and reliability (if/when properly overhauled).

On the later Rolleicords there is a switch on the front of the camera that enables/disables multiple exposure. Doesn't get any easier than that. The Rolleikin 35mm adapter (I have one but haven't installed and used) seems a bit fiddly but if you are inspired to use one then it seems quite possible. I know Rolleikin fits the Vb but not sure if it fits earlier Rolleicord versions. Dan Daniels should know.

bags27 · Jun 2, 2022

BrianShaw said:
This is one of those times where the expression, "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" is appropriate. I, also, really like the Rolleicord, especially the later ones like the Vb. These later Rolleicords are quite a bit better constructed than many of the cameras previously mentioned in this thread and, while defeatured in comparison to the Rolleiflex, are quite capable of doing everything you desire with quality results and reliability (if/when properly overhauled).

+1. Recently snagged a 'Cord Vb(ii) in mint condition, and it's a wonderful camera. A little more work than the equivalent Flex, but I like that. But its optics are still tops and it's much lighter. Can't go wrong with either Cord or Flex, such brilliantly designed cameras. This from the Cord shows the sharpness of the Schneider lens. Red filter. Tri-X in Pyrocat HD

Dan Daniel · Jun 2, 2022

On Rolleiflexes, you need to look for the serrated section at the bottom of the ring around the wind knob, with an arrow engraving. Pretty much every post-WWII Rolleiflex has this feature, but maybe the K4A is missing it? Not certain. Reading this page, it says that double exposure is not possible with the Rolleikin 35mm adapter system.

All in all, if double exposures are your thing, a Rolleicord is the best bang for the buck. Double exposures are simple, lens is great, 35mm using Rolleikin is possible (with double exposure, I am almost certain). The Rolleicord IV (4) is the first with double exposure prevention (with lever to allow double exposures). Rolleicords are not crap versions of Rolleiflexes. They are 'simpler' versions! It's the Yashicas which are the crap versions of Rolleis... oh oops, I didn't say that! (condition, condition, condition!)

('tensioning without film advance' means recocking the shutter without moving film, making double exposures possible)

allmotionisrelative · Jun 2, 2022

bags27 said:
+1. Recently snagged a 'Cord Vb(ii) in mint condition, and it's a wonderful camera. A little more work than the equivalent Flex, but I like that. But its optics are still tops and it's much lighter. Can't go wrong with either Cord or Flex, such brilliantly designed cameras. This from the Cord shows the sharpness of the Schneider lens. Red filter. Tri-X in Pyrocat HDView attachment 307083

Beautiful shot. And your cord can do double exposures?

allmotionisrelative · Jun 2, 2022

Dan Daniel said:
On Rolleiflexes, you need to look for the serrated section at the bottom of the ring around the wind knob, with an arrow engraving. Pretty much every post-WWII Rolleiflex has this feature, but maybe the K4A is missing it? Not certain. Reading this page, it says that double exposure is not possible with the Rolleikin 35mm adapter system.

All in all, if double exposures are your thing, a Rolleicord is the best bang for the buck. Double exposures are simple, lens is great, 35mm using Rolleikin is possible (with double exposure, I am almost certain). The Rolleicord IV (4) is the first with double exposure prevention (with lever to allow double exposures). Rolleicords are not crap versions of Rolleiflexes. They are 'simpler' versions! It's the Yashicas which are the crap versions of Rolleis... oh oops, I didn't say that! (condition, condition, condition!)

('tensioning without film advance' means recocking the shutter without moving film, making double exposures possible)

View attachment 307084

Haha. No judgement everyone has their likes. If Yashicas aren't your thing I get it. I actually shot some great pictures with the Yashicamat and felt very comfortable with it. But I get they're not for everyone.

Appreciate the info. The image you attached is for Rolleiflex not cord correct? So rolleiflex can't do double exposure using 35mm adapter. That's interesting I'm curious what prevents that; is it just the crank difference?

Well based on this it's looking like I might be looking for a Rolleicord since you're saying you can do double exp with adapter. Just to confirm, when you say the Cord IV is the first that has the prevention, do you mean the IV and later ones can't do it or the IV and later ones can do double exposure?

Even though I've been shooting with different TLRs for a year now I feel like there were so many models and various tweaks on them that I find it difficult to know what has what capabilities. Thanks so much for the info.

bags27 · Jun 2, 2022

allmotionisrelative said:
Beautiful shot. And your cord can do double exposures?

Thanks!
Absolutely. It's an easy sliding button that keeps the film from advancing.

allmotionisrelative · Jun 2, 2022

BrianShaw said:
This is one of those times where the expression, "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" is appropriate.

Completely understand. Yes some cameras just get a bad rep. Not sure why but some people seem pretty adamant that they weren't great. Good to know others feel differently and have actually shot with them.

bags27 · Jun 2, 2022

allmotionisrelative said:
Completely understand. Yes some cameras just get a bad rep. Not sure why but some people seem pretty adamant that they weren't great. Good to know others feel differently and have actually shot with them.

This guy has lots of great cameras and is a fine photographer and reviewer. It's funny how he's trying to make his Flex better than his Cord.

MattKing · Jun 2, 2022

Personally, unless I wanted to use a film that is unavailable in 120, I would leave 35mm for 35mm cameras.
That was more likely to occur when Kodachrome was still around.
Take out that requirement, and the world of 120 TLRs expands greatly - most have double exposure capabilities built in.
I've gone the Mamiya route. At the cost of greater weight and size, I have the option of changing lenses. My two lens kit - 65mm and 135mm - fits quite nicely in a small bag. And there is room for a small OM body and lens in there too.

Paul Howell · Jun 2, 2022

Another option is a Mamiya C220, not as heavy as the C330, interchangeable lens, allows for multiple exposure, built in bellows, and the Mamiya 80 2.8 is a great lens. Here is the link to the manual. As my Yaschia 124 and D are getting long in the tooth, I may upgrade to a 220.

https://www.cameramanuals.org/mamiya_pdf/mamiya_c220.pdf

grain elevator · Jun 2, 2022

Why do you want the ability to use 35 mm film for travel? You'll be stuck with a very narrow field of view when you have that loaded. I'd hate that. Whereas you can always crop 120 negatives. I'd suggest a 35 mm camera if you can carry it, that way you also have a backup.

allmotionisrelative · Jun 2, 2022

MattKing said:
Personally, unless I wanted to use a film that is unavailable in 120, I would leave 35mm for 35mm cameras.
That was more likely to occur when Kodachrome was still around.
Take out that requirement, and the world of 120 TLRs expands greatly - most have double exposure capabilities built in.
I've gone the Mamiya route. At the cost of greater weight and size, I have the option of changing lenses. My two lens kit - 65mm and 135mm - fits quite nicely in a small bag. And there is room for a small OM body and lens in there too.

In theory, yes that's what I would do too. And I have a couple 35mm I like to use. But, about 6 months a year is spent traveling. I go for 1 month at a time and I only bring a backpack. So for me, every little bit matters. And because I've come to really enjoy using TLRs, I'd like to have both options available to me for different types of shooting.

I understand it's not ideal or what others would do but it's what I'm hoping to get for my purposes.

btaylor · Jun 2, 2022

allmotionisrelative said:
You don’t think the Rolleicord is too weak? Have read people say it’s just a crap version of the flex. I did really enjoy using the flex so I’ll look into it.

I think people who don’t know should keep saying the ‘cord is a crap version of a ‘flex. That way people who do know can get their hands on a great Rollei for much lower cost!
As Dan pointed out it is not as complex as the ‘flex models. I have a box of Rollei TLRs, when I want something light to carry I prefer the ‘cord.

Paul Howell · Jun 2, 2022

grain elevator said:
Why do you want the ability to use 35 mm film for travel? You'll be stuck with a very narrow field of view when you have that loaded. I'd hate that. Whereas you can always crop 120 negatives. I'd suggest a 35 mm camera if you can carry it, that way you also have a backup.

I agree, a 80mm, and a rather slow 80mm does not make much sense for travel, the advantage of the 35mm insert is for portraits. And once loaded with 35mm film you have to shoot 24 to 36 frames before you can reload with 120.

Dan Daniel · Jun 2, 2022

Sorry for being a bit pissy about Yashicas. I spent a lot of time learning repair on them. There are things going on inside them that are, well, not nice. But they made hundreds of thousands of them, used by students and professionals for decades, so there is a lot right about them, also.

Hearing more of how you travel, I will strongly encourage you to get a Rolleicord Va or Vb. Where it counts, it is like a Rolleiflex. The main body is a casting like a Rolleiflex. The side panels and back are the same thickness as Rolleiflexes. The focus rails the same thickness, etc. So on the gross level of 'frame' and strength, you lose little.

BUT, and this is the big BUT! The mechanics of operation are much simpler. Rolleiflexes are elegant and amazing machines. But if I was in Pakistan or eastern Washington state (e.g., nothing against 'em), and something went wrong with my camera, I'd want to have a Rolleicord, not a Rolleiflex. Because they are simpler to repair, simpler to diagnose. Even simpler to 'hack' around issues if something isn't fixable. Finding someone who can put a Rolleiflex back together right is harder and harder; I bet most machinists or watchmakers could suss out what is going on to make a Rolleicord work, and possibly correct a problem.

What you lose more than anything with the Rolleicord over the Rolleiflex is the sizzle. Just look at the strap lugs of the 'Flex versus the 'Cord. If you are status conscious and moving in circles where having the 'classic' camera is important, the 'Flex is what you want (or if you want a Xenotar or Planar). Heck, compared to any of the Yashicas, also, the Rolleicord will be a low class camera in some circles. That can be good, a bit stealth, undesirable. Tell people it's a crappy Rollei!

Oh, you also lose a half pound of weight over a Rolleiflex. Hiking, this is nice.

So, get a Rolleicord, condition dominant. Get the Rolleikin 35mm kit if carrying two types of film works for you, it's not much bigger than a deck of cards. Get the 6x4.5 16 frame kit, it's smaller than a deck of cards. And get a way to carry exposed 120 spools so that they are shielded from light; you might not be familiar with the way light can bleed in the edges as the spools bounce around.

I wonder if you have through through shooting with 35mm on a TLR. You are pretty much limited to portrait orientation.

Paul Howell · Jun 2, 2022

I have a lot of money with my Yashicas, shot a lot of book covers and author photos with the 124 and D. In daily use the 4 element lens are going to resolve ektachrome 100 or Tmax 100. Surprised no one has pitched the virtues of the Minolta Autocord.

TLR Double Exposure & 35mm Adapter

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