TLR Camera suggestions

[rowghani]

Been shooting with rangefinders and not a fan of SLRs but ive recently started reading about TLRs. I know RolleiFlex is the top dawg but which cheaper body do you recommend? Thanks.

 

[xya]

mamiya C series. there are multiple threads about this question.

 

[Paul Howell]

Rollicords, Yashica 124, I like the Yashica D with the better 4 element taking lens and the 2.8 viewing lens, Minolta Autocord, if you want interchangeable lens Mamiya 33 or 220. The 124 was the last in a line of Yashica's including the LM and 12. Ziess also made a line of TLRs. I would avoid Seagulls.

 

[Kirks518]

I love my Mamiya TLRs, but I really had a lot of fun with the Yashica 124G.

Since getting the Mamiya C330, I have shelved the 124G though. The parallax compensation, and the auto shutter cocking of the C330 makes it a joy to use. Couple that with the interchangeable lenses, it makes a fantastic system IMO.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I had Mamiya C something, forgot the model, C33... Huge and clunky. Lenses, as huge as camera and even blue doted ones are nothing special. Honestly, not recommending, if you want to walk with it.
I have Rolleicord Va, cool camera, it is possible to find working and not overpriced. Simple lens, but sharp with fine contrast.
I have Lubitel-2 fan camera and usable with "sports" viewfinder, very cheap but works and nothing wrong with prints.
I had Yashica A something, the way it is build, meh...
And I had numerous of 124G. Not as perfectly build as Rolleicord, but better handling and lens is crazy sharp with beefy contrast. Easiest TLR to start with and meter on it is handy and accurate.

 

[MDR]

Post war Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex with the Tessar just as good as the Tessar on the Rollei and W. Eugene Smith prefered them over the Rolleis, they are also a lot cheaper. The Meopta Flexaret VII if it works and had a recent CLA is a superb low cost camera with a lens that is equal or surpasses the Rollei Tessars. And last but not least the Yashica-mat non 124 it is lighter than the 124 due to the lack of meter and the gears are supposed to be made out of metal as opposed to partially plastic (124). My personal fav. is the Ikoflex.
The Mamiyas are great but also heavy and if you are used to RF cameras stealthy they are not.

 

[DannL.]

I'm very please with the 124G that I'm using.

 

[anfenglin]

I have a Rolleicord III with Xenar and a Rick Oleson screen. The lens is sharp, very contrasty and the camera is a joy to use. I had to fix it up a bit but I'm a tinkerer so no problemo.
It was sold as is for 58 EUR and I loved it ever since I got it. The build quality is unparalleled and when serviced it'll run until the end of days.
People tend to go for Rolleiflexes and the bonus of having "Rolleiflex" written on their camera but in truth, you don't need a crank and the best lens in my and a lot of other people's opinion is the Xenar 75mm 3.5. If you want a lot more you have to pay the extra which also is a lot more. The Rolleis are the grand daddies of them all and IMHO always will be the best TLRs.

I owned two Seagulls, the 4A was a wreck, the crank advance was broken and somebody tried to fix it with a paper clip. The 4A-103 was great but felt wrong and kind of plasticky in my hands, also I so gotten used to the knob advance, haven to focus on the other side of the camera just felt wrong. The screen was very bright though.
If you have no problem with spending 35 extra USD on a proper screen and you can fix it up yourself, get a 'cord III or higher, the IV or V will cost more though.
I also use a handheld meter, a little Gossen Digisix.

The Mamiyas are very heavy indeed, you'd have the bonus of exchangable lenses though if you need that. I could never concentrate having more than one lens, one really is all I need. You'll learn better focusing on your subject, you concentrate on light etc instead of thinking about which lens you should use. Also you don't have to lug more stuff around.

I have no experience with a Yashica, all I know is that the meter on a 124G can be run with 675 hearing aid batteries, you'd have to stuff something in the battery chamber around it so it doesn't jiggle about. Works for a lot of other old cameras, too btw.

Some people recommend the Minolta Autocord but that's a hard one to get, at least where I am. The there's the Ikoflex, Meoptas, Welta, Voigtländer and so on and so on and so on.

Here's a really extensive site on the subject, the man really has them all (or is looking for them): http://www.tlr-cameras.com/index.htm

Another thing to look out for is the waist level finder, some people really like the concept of TLRs but then just can't get used to the mirrored image in the finder. A thing which I find positive is the different position which you automatically take, you hold the camera quite a bit lower than you would an SLR, this results in different pictures.
But if you play your cards right, you'll get a camera with great lenses (viewing and taking) which is not heavy and the bulk is not too great either but most importantly of all, you'll end up with great pictures.
Just give it a whirl, TLRs are great, I'm a big fan (you may have noticed).
cheers

 

[juan]

I once owned a Yashica. If I tried to use it on a tripod, the tripod would often open the camera back. Look at a photo of the bottom of a Yashica and you'll see how the tripod mount also doubles as the knob to open the back.
I'm using a Mamiya C220 now and it's very stealthy. No one recognizes it as a camera.
Juan

 

[rowghani]

Awesome responses guys thank you. Can anybody comment on the shutter noises of these models?

 

[rowghani]

Great info dude I'll definitely give one a whirl but yes I've used a blad before so am familiar with the waist level finder.

I have a Rolleicord III with Xenar and a Rick Oleson screen. The lens is sharp, very contrasty and the camera is a joy to use. I had to fix it up a bit but I'm a tinkerer so no problemo.
It was sold as is for 58 EUR and I loved it ever since I got it. The build quality is unparalleled and when serviced it'll run until the end of days.
People tend to go for Rolleiflexes and the bonus of having "Rolleiflex" written on their camera but in truth, you don't need a crank and the best lens in my and a lot of other people's opinion is the Xenar 75mm 3.5. If you want a lot more you have to pay the extra which also is a lot more. The Rolleis are the grand daddies of them all and IMHO always will be the best TLRs.

I owned two Seagulls, the 4A was a wreck, the crank advance was broken and somebody tried to fix it with a paper clip. The 4A-103 was great but felt wrong and kind of plasticky in my hands, also I so gotten used to the knob advance, haven to focus on the other side of the camera just felt wrong. The screen was very bright though.
If you have no problem with spending 35 extra USD on a proper screen and you can fix it up yourself, get a 'cord III or higher, the IV or V will cost more though.
I also use a handheld meter, a little Gossen Digisix.

The Mamiyas are very heavy indeed, you'd have the bonus of exchangable lenses though if you need that. I could never concentrate having more than one lens, one really is all I need. You'll learn better focusing on your subject, you concentrate on light etc instead of thinking about which lens you should use. Also you don't have to lug more stuff around.

I have no experience with a Yashica, all I know is that the meter on a 124G can be run with 675 hearing aid batteries, you'd have to stuff something in the battery chamber around it so it doesn't jiggle about. Works for a lot of other old cameras, too btw.

Some people recommend the Minolta Autocord but that's a hard one to get, at least where I am. The there's the Ikoflex, Meoptas, Welta, Voigtländer and so on and so on and so on.

Here's a really extensive site on the subject, the man really has them all (or is looking for them): http://www.tlr-cameras.com/index.htm

Another thing to look out for is the waist level finder, some people really like the concept of TLRs but then just can't get used to the mirrored image in the finder. A thing which I find positive is the different position which you automatically take, you hold the camera quite a bit lower than you would an SLR, this results in different pictures.
But if you play your cards right, you'll get a camera with great lenses (viewing and taking) which is not heavy and the bulk is not too great either but most importantly of all, you'll end up with great pictures.
Just give it a whirl, TLRs are great, I'm a big fan (you may have noticed).
cheers

 

[anfenglin]

No problem, happy to help.

Shutter nioses are nothing to be concerned with, almost all leaf shutters are almost noiseless and since there's no mirror to move you don't have any extra sources of noise. TLRs are perfect cameras for street or very quiet places like museums, people don't notice you and you can be very stealthy. The now famous Vivian Maier supposedly shot her 'flex not only from the hip (sort of), she turned the camera 90 degrees to the left or right to take pictures of people next to her.
I almost forgot the most important thing (at least for my 'cord): get a lens hood! There are cheaper alternatives to the original Rollei bay accessories, my yellow filter's a Yashica, they also made foldable rubber hoods, they also do it. Mine broke though and I got an original metal hood at some point.

 

[Vaughn]

I like my Rolliecord...still need to send the Rolleiflex in for CLA/repair.

But I have used a wide variety of TLR and gravitate towards the simple lighter ones. Even the Ciroflex (I have a newer one made by Graflex after they bought Ciroflex) is a decent camera. Generally, it is better not to have to use a model requiring the red window for advancing film. I have a Mamiya TLR with a nice sharp lens, but a broken focusing knob (a common problem, I think) makes focusing a little awkward.

Unfortunately, my Spartaflex does not, nor will ever again, work.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

An inexpensive ugly user Rolleiflex or Rolleicord. Preferably one with some documented history that works, worst case budget for a fix up. I have a number of Rollieflexes and never paid more than $500 for any of the standard types (vs. wide or tele) and even obtained two of them for $125 and $175 (a 3.5E3 Xenotar and 2.8E Planar) both ugly as sin both working both wonderful performers. I've fixed the 2.8 up some but the 3.5 I've never had anything done. Cheaper version suggested are not bad but they are not Rolleiflexes. And yes I'm a Rolleiflex snob but only because of what u see they can do, how long they can last, how well they are built and how well they can be adequately required and last. And all that said I've found Rolliecords for $50-75 too.

 

[flavio81]

I had Mamiya C something, forgot the model, C33... Huge and clunky. Lenses, as huge as camera and even blue doted ones are nothing special. (...)
I have Lubitel-2 fan camera and usable with "sports" viewfinder, very cheap but works and nothing wrong with prints.

Amazing that the Mamiya C lenses can be "nothing special" but the Lubitel-2, which in my experience has the worst lenses i've ever found on any half-decent medium format camera, are acceptable. Even the Zeiss "Novar-anastigmat" on my Nettars were vastly better. And i did check for infinity focus alignment on my Lubitel. (Then I sold the damn machine to the lomo hipsters.)

I will have to disagree here with the notion of the Mamiya "C" series TLR being "huge and heavy". They are indeed bigger than fixed-lens TLRs, and heavier. But the size and weight is still manageable, if you compare to carrying a regular 35mm SLR with 3 prime lenses, the size and weight is not far bigger if you carry a C330 with 3 lenses. The lenses are good enough for all purposes if you take care to check that alignment is correct. Some lenses, like the 180/4.5 Super, are extremely sharp. Others, like the old 105/4.5 or the 135/4.5 are not the sharpest among their peers, but have lovely bokeh and thus can give pleasing results.

Now, if you don't care for interchangeable lenses, by all means try to get a Rolleiflex. If you can't afford it, then there is the Rolleicord, but some other machines (i.e. Yashicamat 124) have supposedly brighter, better focusing screens.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

An inexpensive ugly user Rolleiflex or Rolleicord. Preferably one with some documented history that works, worst case budget for a fix up. I have a number of Rollieflexes and never paid more than $500 for any of the standard types (vs. wide or tele) and even obtained two of them for $125 and $175 (a 3.5E3 Xenotar and 2.8E Planar) both ugly as sin both working both wonderful performers. I've fixed the 2.8 up some but the 3.5 I've never had anything done. Cheaper version suggested are not bad but they are not Rolleiflexes. And yes I'm a Rolleiflex snob but only because of what u see they can do, how long they can last, how well they are built and how well they can be adequately required and last. And all that said I've found Rolliecords for $50-75 too.

Clarification: all said above but none with heavily hazey or fungus in the lens.

 

[flavio81]

Awesome responses guys thank you. Can anybody comment on the shutter noises of these models?

My Rolleicord was very silent. The Yashica machines are similar. The Mamiya C cameras depend on the shutter, the "black" lenses are reasonably quiet, the earlier "chrome" lenses are noisier ("ping!").

 

[Luis-F-S]

Get a Rollei in whatever flavor appeals to you.

 

[DannL.]

Here's a short video I found of the 124G. Not a good video, but it shows the shutter being tested around the 1:30 mark in the video. Winding the film is louder than the shutter firing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MpBQfGgKzw

This guy seems to like his . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZvpegPhyZw

 

[DWThomas]

Awesome responses guys thank you. Can anybody comment on the shutter noises of these models?

I have a Yashica 124G; the shutter noise is almost inconsequential, the film winding is a bit noisy.

 

[TooManyShots]

Yashica Mat with the Yashinon lens. Some of the lower end models use a cheaper taking lens. Mamiya C series may be too big and heavy for you.

 

[pagonzales]

the cheapest and lightest TLR that I can recommend is the Ricohflex. Just make sure you get the one with 1/200 speed. Can be had for 15$-40$. Cheap and easy to repair-I learned how to do a CLA on my first Ricohflex. Has a nice triplet lens that looks good for portraits wide open (swirly bokeh!) and is quite sharp stopped down to f11 onwards. It's very light so it's easy to have in the bag along with your rangefinders. Known to ahve frozen helicoids due to age, but really easy to repair.

As previously mentioned, Ikoflexes, particularly the I and Ia, are nice users. They're not as complicated to use and repair as the other Ikoflexes and have brighter screens than the Rolleicords of the same era. Most, however, need to have the mirrors replaced. I got one for 30$ because "the viewfinder is cloudy"-replaced the mirror with a 7$ replacement from ebay and I have a nice user. The ones with tessar lenses are the same level as xenar and tessar equipped Rolleis.

The Mamiya C series is the only sensible option if you want wide and tele lenses. However, it is heavy compared to all the other TLRs. It weighs almost 3 times the ricohflex, more so if you use the bigger lenses.

 

[MattKing]

My Mamiya C330 makes a ratcheting noise when I wind it - it isn't particularly loud, but it certainly is louder than the almost silent shutter.

 

[piu58]

I used some TLRs and ended with a Rolleiflex 3,5F. I had a later Rolleicord (Vb) too, with the bright screen. I would use it every time again. Nice camera, not too expansive.

 

[Brett Rogers]

All of the Rolleis are nice, but if you factor in age, value and complexity the most affordable and safest route to a happy ending is a Rolleicord. They are less complex than the Rolleiflexes. A Rolleiflex can be a very reliable camera, indeed. But it also has more moving parts and the film sensor roller pair in particular can require the occasional adjustment. Now this is not a problem, per se. If one wants an Automat, 2.8, 3.5 Planar Xenotar etc. then one finds a suitable example of the model one desires and off you go. However if you want the best bang for your dollar with the least complication, dollar for dollar, you will get a better example of a Rolleicord than a Rolleiflex. I'm not suggesting the Rolleicords are better cameras than the Rolleiflexes (in some ways they are superior, in others inferior). They are however fitted with superb Schneider Xenar lenses (later models from III onwards), have fewer parts, more simplicity, less things to adjust or go wrong. If funds are tight they are simply a safer bet. The V introduced a self timer, had coated lenses and could do almost anything the Va or Vb could except certain 16 or 24 exposure kits or the interchangeable finders of the Vb. Personally I find it the sweet spot in the range, features vs cost, it does however have the focus and wind both on the right side. In use I have found this actually works very well, however the Va and Vb have left side focus knob like the Rolleiflexes. Personal preference counts strongly as to which suits you best, I've used Va & V a lot and was perfectly OK with either. If you are keener on a Rolleiflex the late 2.8F models command the big dollars, you can save a lot by looking to a 2.8C or D, and also by going for a 3.5 Automat or an E model with Xenotar.

You really cannot go wrong by finding a decent example of almost any Rollei TLR, except the Rolleimagics, which are best left for the collectors. Even the T has its good points though I personally do not care for it (and due partly to the "Vivian Maier" factor it is arguably quite overpriced in the current market). Condition is everything. Look for the best example you can afford within your budget.
Cheers
Brett