TLL triggers and TTL monolights

[Hansha]

Hello,

Maybe this has been answered, but I could not find it.

Anyway, I have hard time geting info on analogue cameras compatibility with modern TTL monolights. I am mostly interested in Nikon OTF TTL.

Questions:

1. Will a TTL monolight work with analogue cameras TTL?
2. If yes, will it work via optical slavery?
3. If no, does it need a TTL capabele trigger or will it work with any radio trigger?
4. And additionally, does a TTL capable trigget turn a non TTL monolight into TTL capable?
5. Am I correct presuming non TTL monolights can not be quenched by optical master?

I hope someone can help me here.

Thank you in advance and best regards!

 

[spijker]

1. I think so if the analogue camera uses the same TTL system as the modern digital cameras of the same brand.
2. I don't think that monolights are compatible with optical slavery, as far as I know it's radio only. You can trigger monolights optically but no TTL control.
   
3. You need a (radio) trigger/transmitter that is compatible with BOTH the camera TTL system and the monolight TTL system.
4. No, the whole chain must be TTL compatible of the same brand/system.
5. I don't think so, same as 2.

 

[John Koehrer]

Quite a few monolights have optical slaves built into them but if you're
using one of the slaves that plugs into a PC cord there's no reason it shouldn't work.

 

[Hansha]

Thank you spijker.

John, I am aware they have the capability of optical slavery, however that does not mean they can be controled (quenched) optically when master tells them so as it is with speedlights ...

 

[wiltw]

Beware of terminology vaguary!

TTL = generic term for 'Thru the Lens', and does NOT IMPLY that the TTL flash control is compatible with film vs. digital cameras.

• 'film TTL' works by the camera monitoring the light from the flash during the exposure, then sending a 'quench' command to the flash to cause it to stop emitting light
• 'digital TTL' works by the camera sending a 'preflash' command to the flash, the camera measuring the preflash return intensity, then sending a predetermined power output command to the flash a moment before trigger, then triggering firing.

'film TTL' and 'digital TTL' are NOT compatible with one another, altough flash units CAN be designed to support both types of TTL.

So you can take any ' TTL monolight ' and fire it with any film or digital camera with the trigger circuit in the hotshoe, but it fires in Manual mode (it could be dialed down to a preset fractional power level via the flash's own controls).
But any ability for a 'digital TTL' monolight to fire would be devoid of any camera-based control of the emitted light intensity...the analog camera has no way to send 'preflash' command nor send the command for 'emit predetermined power level' immediately prior to trigger.

 

[MattKing]

Your film camera will implement a particular type of TTL control system for flash. As an example, my Canon EOS Elan 7e uses Canon's E-TTL system.
You need to determine whether the monolights and triggers are compatible with the type of TTL control system(s) that your camera uses, as well as how to set them for that type of system. That will likely vary with each monolight and trigger system.
It may be difficult to find a modern monolight and trigger system that is compatible with legacy (film) systems.

 

[spijker]

Hansha, since you're mainly interested the Nikon system. You should read this: http://dpanswers.com/content/nikon_flash.php
Canon's E-TTL(II) system is (backwards) compatible with the last generations of EOS film cameras. So I should be able to use both my Elan2e and 5Dmk2 with the same flashes. Nikon seems to be more restrictive and supposedly the Nikon F6 is the only film camera compatible with the current Nikon CLS system.

With monolights, I always use a flash meter and a digital "polaroid" to check the manual flash settings.

 

[Leigh B]

With monolights, I always use a flash meter and a digital "polaroid" to check the manual flash settings.

I do the same.

No telling whether a camera's TTL will see the scene exactly as I envision it.

- Leigh

 

[Hansha]

Despite some, I am sure benevolent, lecturing about things I never asked - thank you guys.

spijker - yes, this is exactly what I am wondering about. I am aware of all Nikon protocols from SU-4 optical to the newest CLS. You are right, F6 is the only one supporting CLE speedlights. However I have no problem with my speedlights, what I wonder is how to find out and monolight that can be quenchable when TTL senses enough exposure. Either optical or wirelessly. Now CLE is clear, but I do not use a F6 since it is far to expensive for what it brings.

Preflashes do not matter here:

1. It is not true analogue systems do not know preflash - F6 and F80 and F100 employ them in certain modes which also confuse optical slaves.
2. Preflashes are needed because digital cannot use OTF. But both, preflash or OTF establish sufficient exposure data which quenches the slaves. Of course the protocol surely is somehow different.

To sum it up - information about compatibility of analogue systems with TTL monolights is more then scarce. I would be glad if one knows any further info or perhaps knows a compatible model.

Ah yes, spijker I do not own a digital camera But yes, I maybe should buy 50 bucks one instead of light-meter.

Thanx to all for your help, guys.

 

[mweintraub]

As mentioned, the body has to have a TTL version that the trigger and strobe support. As you know, the F6 is the only Nikon that has iTTL that, I'm sure, all modern strobes only support. I have yet to test this with the F6 and my Godox ttl system.

 

[Hansha]

Thank you mweintraub.

Yes, it is probably safe to assume TTL monolights do not work with traditional TTLs. However - one question. Can F6 be switched to the traditional OTF TTL? If yes, it would be great for a test with Godox TTL.

Cheers!

 

[mweintraub]

Thank you mweintraub.

Yes, it is probably safe to assume TTL monolights do not work with traditional TTLs. However - one question. Can F6 be switched to the traditional OTF TTL? If yes, it would be great for a test with Godox TTL.

Cheers!

Maybe I don't understand, but why would you want to go to the traditional TTL when it supports iTTL that the Godox system supports.

ETA: Ok, now you got me interested in doing some TTL / HSS testing with the F6. Challenge Accepted.