Tired of hearing "Film is Dead?" Well So Are We!

MDR · Jul 31, 2013

New Kodak Motion Picture ad http://motion.kodak.com/motion/Customers/Productions/index.htm note this is only a selection of movies shot on film. A big amount of 2 Mio + Budget Movies still uses Film as Medium of choice. Distribution is another thing.
Still I thought I'd share this positive and good Kodak ad.

Go Kodak Go!!!

AgX · Jul 31, 2013

Distribution is another thing.

Someone making a movie on film is meanwhile getting into difficulties if he only wants to release it on film...

MDR · Jul 31, 2013

Yeah said state of affairs. From a producers POV understandable. I am still pissed at the EU for founding the conversion of classic cinemas to digital. The lack of founding for new digital projectors would have slowed down the move from releasing movies on film (high res glory) to releasing them in digital slower res glory. Another pet peeves of mine is the fact that even anamorphic movies rarely get a 4K scan and release only 2K

Dominik

selmslie · Jul 31, 2013

AgX said:
Someone making a movie on film is meanwhile getting into difficulties if he only wants to release it on film...

The same goes for us here. More than half of the B&W and nearly all of the color in the gallery make no mention of wet printing. It seems a lot of the posted images may be ultimately headed for a digital printer or never actually get printed at all.

dpurdy · Jul 31, 2013

I was just listening to an article on Oregon Public Radio yesterday called "Digital or Die". First run theaters are being forced to switch over to digital projection by Hollywood. They are phasing out movies being shot on film. They want to be able to ship movies on a small hard drive for digital projection instead of paying the cost of shipping several large cans of film not to mention the expense of making all the film duplicates.

MDR · Jul 31, 2013

Some digital movie projectors don't even require a harddisk they receive the data via satelite. Distribution on film is expensive and I understand the producers what I don't understand are festivals that stopped accepting film copies and only accept digital copies. Festivals sell themselves as the place where indepent and quality cinema is shown but they don't accept a quality product anymore. At least movies even digital ones are getting archived on film stock not all (lack of budget) but some. In Europe it's not only the producers that forced the change but also the individual countries.

gleaf · Aug 1, 2013

One of my son's class mates was a theater projectionist. He came up with the software that lets the cinema (large number) theaters have a single projectionist and one pc control the multi-mini theaters in the complex. The dangers of allowing youth to have ideas and computers I suppose.

StoneNYC · Aug 1, 2013

MDR said:
Some digital movie projectors don't even require a harddisk they receive the data via satelite. Distribution on film is expensive and I understand the producers what I don't understand are festivals that stopped accepting film copies and only accept digital copies. Festivals sell themselves as the place where indepent and quality cinema is shown but they don't accept a quality product anymore. At least movies even digital ones are getting archived on film stock not all (lack of budget) but some. In Europe it's not only the producers that forced the change but also the individual countries.

Most indie film makers can't afford to shoot on film and shoot digitally... Just FYI...

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wblynch · Aug 1, 2013

It is all B.S. US movie theaters are charging $16 to $20 a ticket now. Tell me the $10 or $20 shipping charges for film are impacting the profits!

It is all greed over quality.

Why go to a movie house when one can get a 70 inch flat screen TV for their own home at reasonable prices and watch the thing right there?

Movie houses need to offer a higher quality experience than people can get at home.

$16 fpr a low quality picture, plus dealing with punks all on their cell phones and chattering through the presentation is enough to make me think real hard about that 70 in flat screen.

Besides that there aren't even any movies good enough to warrant a $16 ticket in the first place.

NOW... if they opened an art movie house near me that was dedicated to film projection, even showing classic movies like "Grand Prix", I would be on board with that.

Klainmeister · Aug 1, 2013

I love the artifacting and aliasing that occurs with digital projection during panning motions. It's soooo nice to look at!

Prest_400 · Aug 1, 2013

wblynch said:
It is all B.S. US movie theaters are charging $16 to $20 a ticket now. Tell me the $10 or $20 shipping charges for film are impacting the profits!

It is all greed over quality.

Why go to a movie house when one can get a 70 inch flat screen TV for their own home at reasonable prices and watch the thing right there?

Movie houses need to offer a higher quality experience than people can get at home.

$16 fpr a low quality picture, plus dealing with punks all on their cell phones and chattering through the presentation is enough to make me think real hard about that 70 in flat screen.

Besides that there aren't even any movies good enough to warrant a $16 ticket in the first place.

NOW... if they opened an art movie house near me that was dedicated to film projection, even showing classic movies like "Grand Prix", I would be on board with that.

Can't say I disagree Bill. I used to go a lot to the cinema in 2011-12 when my theater was 80% film. Weekend prices were about 9$...
Now it's 80% digital, keeping a single theater with a film projector. Prices have increased 4$ and they now put phone company ads in the trailer section. IMO, like youtube but in a theater!
I plain disagree with forcing everyone to "move forward", big theaters might do well, but small theaters won't.

Tom1956 · Aug 1, 2013

I don't go to movies. The Hollywood whackos have gotten to be such wingdings and lunatics, I prefer not to contribute.

DREW WILEY · Aug 1, 2013

There are several corporate strategies going on here. One is the fact that lots of movies nowadays are "action films" with a lot of digital mickey
mouse and so-so acting which technologically matches this new form of release. Another important factor is that the big film operatives can
basically bankrupt neighborhood theatres and take over by forcing them into unrealistic new projection debt. Distribution per se is simplified
(though filmmakers themselves can still be creative and decide to use real film for the initial filming). ... None of this affects me. I shoot sheet
film, and have solved that whole theatre issue the simple way ... I simply don't go to movies anymore. Why bother if there's nothing special to the experience.

erikg · Aug 1, 2013

I agree about the theater experience. The screens get smaller. The rooms get smaller. If it is digitally projected it is even closer to what I can see at home. It's not special anymore. I'd rather stay at home or at a friends house and not have someone sitting behind me talking and eating the whole time.

Prest_400 · Aug 1, 2013

DREW WILEY said:
None of this affects me. I shoot sheet
film, and have solved that whole theatre issue the simple way ... I simply don't go to movies anymore. Why bother if there's nothing special to the experience.

I remember a while ago concerns about how halting MP film producion affected Still film, as the latter was "subsidized" by the former; At least in the sense of economies of scale. But yes... the only manufacturer that keeps both lines is Kodak. If MP film demand decreases, let's see what would happen to Still film.
Fuji... well, are "more or less commited" and the other small manufacturers do some MP or none at all.

And the last movie I went to see, man of steel, used Kodak stock; Better than nothing. Due to prices and as our group of mates don't get together as much and in the way we used to do... I am happy by not going to the cinema.
Yes, it is becoming less special. With film projection there's still some "cinematography look" (though in camera film still keeps it) but with pure digital it just seems a big version of youtube.

JohnRichard · Aug 1, 2013

As a filmmaker, I found it quite easy to obtain 10000 feet of Fuji stock second hand for not quite money.

Developing can be done for a little more, and an optical finish for not much more.
Price gets interesting when labs jack up prices of scanning film for DI purposes because of one reason or another. Cutting an inter positive can be a fantastic learning event.

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DREW WILEY · Aug 1, 2013

A minor but important use for motion film will be archiving. There is a lot of skepticism in the industry about just how permanent any kind of
digital record will be. Rapid obsolescence is the whole key to the continued growth of the current electronics industry - today's technology
making sure yesterday's won't work any more, and coming up with something yet again. Pretty much the Tower of Babel for profit - nobody will be able to communicate with another generation, in this case visually. I'm sure I'll get flak for stating this - but all one has to do is look up all the chatter in the industry itself to understand it's a real issue. But cine film affects still film production only to a certain extent. The products are different, even the base material tends to be different. Not all still films are related in this respect either. ... and while the dust has yet to settle for that particular industry, the reorganization of Kodak into a smaller dedicated entity is actually good news in terms of sustainability. Things get based on real demand and real profit instead of a lot of stock market ballyhoo, with one division subsidizing venture in another. If film ends up costing more, so be it - I'll just have to skip paying to see another movie not worth watching anyway.

mesantacruz · Aug 1, 2013

Well i used to be able to cross the border from el paso,tx to juarez mexico... 8.00 in el paso normal theatre experience... for about $5.00-$6.00 in juarez, mexico i would be able to sit in a leather la-z-boy type chair where my feet would go up... get awesome hot dogs with everything on it and mixed (alcoholic) drinks, catered to us... this was a 10-15 minute drive, given that crossing back the border was 5-30 minutes if we came back late enough.

on a second note... the movie industry used to be able to make a killing after movies were released for private viewing... through video sales... although they still charge $33 a blu-ray disc, fear of obsolescence (which is so apparent today), doesn't appeal to much to people. Any why re-watch an summer action film (which for the most part lacks much intrinsic value) when you can watch anything imaginable on youtube. the reason they charge so much at a movie theatre is for the 'experience' which for me was cool... but as mentioned with digital projectors and sloppy sound producing, it's just not the same. Once people noticed the difference a sound system did to an in home 'movie experience' the game changed drastically as well.

The last straw was drawn when people began to upload movies online the same day they were released. why pay $25 for tickets, plus 15 for popcorn! and soda, when you can enjoy a MEAL or whatever snacks and the same movie IN bed on your computer screen. no driving, no lines, no problems. All i have to say, is i agree the 'experience' is lacking for what they charge, i want my lay-z-boy

Tom1956 · Aug 1, 2013

Tom1956 said:
I don't go to movies. The Hollywood whackos have gotten to be such wingdings and lunatics, I prefer not to contribute.

Pardon me for that. I can't repeal it now, but it prayed on my mind that this isn't the forum for that kind of talk. The prostatitis has gotten me down again and makes me cranky. Please pardon.

StoneNYC · Aug 1, 2013

mesantacruz said:
Well i used to be able to cross the border from el paso,tx to juarez mexico... 8.00 in el paso normal theatre experience... for about $5.00-$6.00 in juarez, mexico i would be able to sit in a leather la-z-boy type chair where my feet would go up... get awesome hot dogs with everything on it and mixed (alcoholic) drinks, catered to us... this was a 10-15 minute drive, given that crossing back the border was 5-30 minutes if we came back late enough.

on a second note... the movie industry used to be able to make a killing after movies were released for private viewing... through video sales... although they still charge $33 a blu-ray disc, fear of obsolescence (which is so apparent today), doesn't appeal to much to people. Any why re-watch an summer action film (which for the most part lacks much intrinsic value) when you can watch anything imaginable on youtube. the reason they charge so much at a movie theatre is for the 'experience' which for me was cool... but as mentioned with digital projectors and sloppy sound producing, it's just not the same. Once people noticed the difference a sound system did to an in home 'movie experience' the game changed drastically as well.

The last straw was drawn when people began to upload movies online the same day they were released. why pay $25 for tickets, plus 15 for popcorn! and soda, when you can enjoy a MEAL or whatever snacks and the same movie IN bed on your computer screen. no driving, no lines, no problems. All i have to say, is i agree the 'experience' is lacking for what they charge, i want my lay-z-boy

In the Midwest they have theaters that have that service, beer, hot dogs, feet up, leather chair, servers, etc, and the price is less than my price here in CT... With grimy chairs and small screen. Then again Midwest has the room...

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Mustafa Umut Sarac · Aug 2, 2013

Pardon me for that. I can't repeal it now, but it prayed on my mind that this isn't the forum for that kind of talk.

Why ? They talk about how to buy a gun and sharpen the blades at the bottom of forums.

erikg · Aug 2, 2013

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
Why ? They talk about how to buy a gun and sharpen the blades at the bottom of forums.

Huh?

wblynch · Aug 2, 2013

Perhaps it's his targeted AD's ?

Klainmeister · Aug 2, 2013

wblynch said:
Perhaps it's his targeted AD's ?

I hope that's not the case, otherwise I guess I have a potency issue I wasn't aware of...

pbromaghin · Aug 2, 2013

He's talking about certain off-topic discussions in "The Lounge". It's down at the bottom of the forumn page. Do not enter if you are easily offended.

Tired of hearing "Film is Dead?" Well So Are We!

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