Tired of film-users bashing

[mr rusty]

Going backwards

How many people like me are there who are going backwards? I'm not a brilliant photographer, but try and take care when I take a shot and have an interest in the technology. When I started taking pictures there was only film and I have a cupboard full of prints that document our family etc over the last 30 years. I had various film cameras - nothing too exotic ending up with a minolta x300 and a few lenses. Then I went digital. My first digital camera had good glass and few pixels, but took relatively good photos. A few cameras later (they don't seem to last long) and I have an excellent point and squirt digital with 10 x zoom and image stabilisation. It has its uses.

A year or so ago I picked up an old Kiev for nothing and ran some BW400 through it. Wow, the results were so much better than I expected. Then I picked up a retina folder and found that was decent as well and started to get a bit of a bug picking up old film cameras off that well know auction site for what was basically peanuts. (anyone noticed prices are going up again!) After 7-8 real cheapies I then spent a bit more (more than the other half knows) on a retina iiis outfit from Germany. A well used and serviced excellent condition example, and this has become my main camera for the time being. I love using something 50 years old and knowing that with care it can produce some excellent results. Its a solid piece of kit and feels like it has been hewn from a single piece of metal. (not the lightest camera round your neck all day) I find I look forward with anticipation to getting the developed film back - its definitely different to the immediacy of digital. Now I've just acquired a mint Olympus OM1n and despite thinking I was going to concentrate on rangefinders, ran a couple of films through this the other weekend down in carcassone, france and also back to backed with the digital PnS. There is definitely something about film images that makes them different. better? maybe sometimes but definitely different. Now, I do have to admit that as an experiment I sent the last two films away to be scanned to CD only by the processor, rather than have the local shop do the D&P, which I wasn't sure they were getting the absolute best results from. Interestingly I think I am getting better prints by inkjetting the high resolution scans than from the local shop prints. (£3.50 per film for 6MP scans BTW).

Sitting on my desk right now the postman has just delivered a 35mm lens for the OM1n which I am eagerly awaiting back from Michael Spencer who is changing the foam and doing a CLA + 5 rolls of fuji 200 and 5 rolls of Ilford XP2 400. While the C41 B&W seems pretty good, now I am thinking about how I can rig up a darkroom to have a play around with some B&W printing.

The question is why am I doing this? the answer is cos its fun. Its not just the challenge of trying to get the best out of the equipment, its also quite fun being a maverick in a digital world, and I enjoy the conversations that result. It does make you think about what you are shooting knowing that you can't just blast away and hope for a decent shot. And surely that's what it is all about. The fun of learning about the equipment and process; the fun of the challenge of getting it right and the fun of anticipation of the end product. Whereas digital for me is just about obtaining a record of an event in time, because personally I am incapable of getting the same attachment to a "computer" as I can for a beautifully crafted piece of mechanical engineering. I've re-discovered photography as a creative hobby.

So I've gone from 100% film to 100% digital, then film has crept back. Now I'm 50:50 film and digital and probably a bit hybrid (but surely no more than having printing done at the local shop cos they don't wet print either any more), but I really now want to have a go at my own D&P. Not sure how I am going to persuade the other half yet to give up some space, and let me go spending more hard earned, but that's for another day.

Sorry if I'm not supposed to mention the D word as much as I have, but this is my story and I can't help keep reading this forum and picking up new knowledge. I guess I also have GAS

Cheers

 

[Sirius Glass]

mr rusty,

Welcome back to the darkside.

To help you free yourself of GAS, check out Dead Link Removed. [They are very conservative on their ratings of their cameras and they have a wonderful return policy.] Please releive your GAS and stimulate the economy on this side of the pond.

By the way I have an offroad vehicle named Rusty. See the attached photograph of Rusty driving through the Golden Crack in Moab Utah.

Steve

 

[benjiboy]

Ever see The Italian Job ?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Yes, several times.

Steve

 

[EASmithV]

How many people like me are there who are going backwards? I'm not a brilliant photographer, but try and take care when I take a shot and have an interest in the technology. When I started taking pictures there was only film and I have a cupboard full of prints that document our family etc over the last 30 years. I had various film cameras - nothing too exotic ending up with a minolta x300 and a few lenses. Then I went digital. My first digital camera had good glass and few pixels, but took relatively good photos. A few cameras later (they don't seem to last long) and I have an excellent point and squirt digital with 10 x zoom and image stabilisation. It has its uses.

A year or so ago I picked up an old Kiev for nothing and ran some BW400 through it. Wow, the results were so much better than I expected. Then I picked up a retina folder and found that was decent as well and started to get a bit of a bug picking up old film cameras off that well know auction site for what was basically peanuts. (anyone noticed prices are going up again!) After 7-8 real cheapies I then spent a bit more (more than the other half knows) on a retina iiis outfit from Germany. A well used and serviced excellent condition example, and this has become my main camera for the time being. I love using something 50 years old and knowing that with care it can produce some excellent results. Its a solid piece of kit and feels like it has been hewn from a single piece of metal. (not the lightest camera round your neck all day) I find I look forward with anticipation to getting the developed film back - its definitely different to the immediacy of digital. Now I've just acquired a mint Olympus OM1n and despite thinking I was going to concentrate on rangefinders, ran a couple of films through this the other weekend down in carcassone, france and also back to backed with the digital PnS. There is definitely something about film images that makes them different. better? maybe sometimes but definitely different. Now, I do have to admit that as an experiment I sent the last two films away to be scanned to CD only by the processor, rather than have the local shop do the D&P, which I wasn't sure they were getting the absolute best results from. Interestingly I think I am getting better prints by inkjetting the high resolution scans than from the local shop prints. (£3.50 per film for 6MP scans BTW).

Sitting on my desk right now the postman has just delivered a 35mm lens for the OM1n which I am eagerly awaiting back from Michael Spencer who is changing the foam and doing a CLA + 5 rolls of fuji 200 and 5 rolls of Ilford XP2 400. While the C41 B&W seems pretty good, now I am thinking about how I can rig up a darkroom to have a play around with some B&W printing.

The question is why am I doing this? the answer is cos its fun. Its not just the challenge of trying to get the best out of the equipment, its also quite fun being a maverick in a digital world, and I enjoy the conversations that result. It does make you think about what you are shooting knowing that you can't just blast away and hope for a decent shot. And surely that's what it is all about. The fun of learning about the equipment and process; the fun of the challenge of getting it right and the fun of anticipation of the end product. Whereas digital for me is just about obtaining a record of an event in time, because personally I am incapable of getting the same attachment to a "computer" as I can for a beautifully crafted piece of mechanical engineering. I've re-discovered photography as a creative hobby.

So I've gone from 100% film to 100% digital, then film has crept back. Now I'm 50:50 film and digital and probably a bit hybrid (but surely no more than having printing done at the local shop cos they don't wet print either any more), but I really now want to have a go at my own D&P. Not sure how I am going to persuade the other half yet to give up some space, and let me go spending more hard earned, but that's for another day.

Sorry if I'm not supposed to mention the D word as much as I have, but this is my story and I can't help keep reading this forum and picking up new knowledge. I guess I also have GAS

Cheers

Me too. Only the further I go back, the larger the format gets...

 

[Joe VanCleave]

Vote with your dollars (Canadian, for the OP). And make sure that you go back to your "local" camera store and let them know that you vote with your dollars, mail-order, to whomever has the goods in stock. Like Freestyle, or any other internet/mail order outfit of your choosing who still support film users.

Remind your "local" camera store that the customer is always right. That their business model is to get the dollars out of your hands and into theirs in fair exchange for goods and services that are of fair value according to you, the customer, not them, nor the wholesalers of the new digital merchandisers. Remind them that this is what was once called Capitalism.

~Joe

PS: I try and support my local camera store, even when I've put up with years of arrogance and abuse by the owner and his college-age flunkie employees who know next to nothing about photography. Like several weeks ago I was preparing for a road trip to Colorado, was in the market to purchase a polarizing filter. I had to stand through an arrogant lecture by the owner of why my assumptions about the use of circular vs linear polarizers were wrong. If I were him I would have just shook my head up and down, in agreement, regardless of whether the customer was right or wrong or totally dingy, and rang up the sale with a smile on my face, knowing he'll be back again for more. As it is, internet mail order is sounding much more attractive. I've frequented that store for twenty years, spent a lot of money there. But they don't owe me any allegiance, nor I to them, outside of the economic relationship of businessman to customer. Which they can't even get right. This is economics in 21st century America.

PPS: You can't out-compete Walmart. This is the fundamental flaw in the minds of most small business owners in the photography field. Like they think they can sell digital crap like any other big-box electronics store or mail order ad in the back of a magazine and expect to turn profit. The key to the local economy is to focus on niche markets, areas that aren't being well-served by the big-box generic retailers. Like film shooters, specialty camera users (LF, MF, rangefinders, u4/3 formats that are becoming hybrids between the analog and the digital). Local business has to develop relationships. In fact, local business is all about relationship. That's what you're missing at Walmart.

 

[DaveOttawa]

...PS: I try and support my local camera store, even when I've put up with years of arrogance and abuse by the owner and his college-age flunkie employees who know next to nothing about photography.

Hmm, I certainly wouldn't support a business as rubbish as your "local camera store" - especially not if they'd been rubbish for years as you say.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Hmm, I certainly wouldn't support a business as rubbish as your "local camera store" - especially not if they'd been rubbish for years as you say.

What he said.

Steve

 

[RMP-NikonPro]

Tired of film-users bashing!

Then order your film online, Google it!! still loads of it about! Ebay! Amazon!!
Get it posted to your home so you don't have to go shopping! use that time to shoot more images!!

Don't have to Listen to stupid comments from stupid dealers then do you! (There's enough good advice online!)

Simple,

Anyway who cares what dealers think?
What the hell do they know anyway?

 

[Aurum]

I'd agree with most of the above, except for fee-pay. I've always found it rather pricey for film.

Online film suppliers do get a lot of my business for the more unusual stuff I shoot. I do like to support, however, the local business where I can.

THat said, if they treat me like a Richard the third.... I'll go elsewhere

 

[Vonder]

We have two small camera stores here in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, population 'bout 100k. There's also one in Iowa City about 20 miles away. I do 90% of my local business at one staore because they're good people, and their film processing is first rate. Now if they'd only buy a new film cutter and stop scratching my negatives...

But I seldom buy film there. They carry little, mostly Kodak B&W, sometimes Reala. A few pro films, sometimes. They do have a nice darkroom supply section which while small meets all my needs. So I buy from them when I can, and will continue to do so as long as possible. It never hurts to have friends in the business!

 

[John R.]

I take the view that if a salesperson has a digital mindset do to whatever reason the last thing I am going to do is try and argue a medium choice with them. I will no more convince them to stick with film as they have no chance of convincing me to go with digital. Like others have pointed out, they are there as salesman, the goal is to sell the latest whiz bang to make the store a profit and possibly make a commission themselves. Also, you have to understand that they are subject to the cycle of marketing hype by manufacturers who are subject to the follow up demands by the consumers. It's a vicious cycle of hyped up marketing and profit focus. It does not mean you have to jump on board that train. Do your own thing your own way. That's what imaging is all about, a unique vision and approach. You can try any means to reach that goal, film or digital, some will choose one or the other because they prefer one production means over the other, some will simply be absorbed by the hype of the slick marketing. Some will invest their hard earned money in quality gear that holds value while others will toss their money away on worthless electronic junk. Some will like feeling their image in their hands during production and others will like staring into a LCD screen. Some will dump out a bottle of oxidized chemistry and others will fight the frustrations of computers. When you run into a salesman or store that heavily pushes digital you have to remind yourself they are simply following the industry bandwagon of today. It does not mean film is dead or will be dead, which is a ridiculous and absurd expression to begin with. It will be around to be sure. Kodak has made major future commitments to their film business. You can read about it in their Professional imaging publications. Ilford is commited, Fuji likewise. These companies all know you, I and everyone else is out there and the market is strong and they know it will not disappear. They want that market and the dollars it generates.

When you are treated the way you were at your local store you need to ask them one simple question....... Do you wish for me to spend my money here or not? That is their priority number one, to make money. It's a business first. If you continue to be insulted by a rude, and frankly stupid salesperson speak with the owner or general manager and tell them your business will go elsewhere if the salesman's attitude continues. Make your voice heard to the people that make the decisions. Arguing with a clerk is a total waste of time and effort and will just result in frustration and a loss of joy for photography by you. Do what you do and enjoy it and let the manufacturers know what you want, that is what will support film and traditional wet processes. Buy from dealers and manufacturers who care about and invest in present and future traditional imaging. That's the best thing you can do. Your dollars will speak louder than your words. Do not patronize dealers who you voice your concerns to that ignore you with their product offerings or subject you to rude and disrespectful sales attitudes. Do something on your own to promote the traditional photography future, teach children about film and show them the excitement of how creating that image works. They are the future of photography!

Don't let the salesmen get you down ...... You have a lot of support out here.

 

[Aurum]

But I seldom buy film there. They carry little, mostly Kodak B&W, sometimes Reala. A few pro films, sometimes. They do have a nice darkroom supply section which while small meets all my needs. So I buy from them when I can, and will continue to do so as long as possible. It never hurts to have friends in the business!

I'd prefer to have a smaller range that is rotated out quickly rather than a wide range of which 60% has an inch of dust on it and expiry dates in Roman numerals.

They are obviously taking the view as a business to stock what turns a profit for them