Tip, when buying paper online

NB23 · Mar 27, 2022

Buying open box ilford/foma/seagull (...) papers can can often be a great deal and enable you to try long gone papers.
Unless you’re stuck with a mean, vile, machiavelic seller, there’s a trick to ensure that you will not receive exposed papers from an open box.

I thought about this long and hard, about how to overcome the fear of receiving an exposed packet of papers, and here is my answer: Before comiting to buy I ask the seller to show me the papers, to open the box and send me a photo.
If he tells me I’m crazy, or stupid, or that he won’t do it in fear of exposing them, I will buy them.
If he sends me a photo of the sheets in question, well...

Basically, this is the way to do it.

MattKing · Mar 27, 2022

The logician in me tells me that that is a terrible idea.
Why?
Because if you ask the question, the seller knows that you are un-informed, and therefore can safely be sent the exposed papers in their inventory!

NB23 · Mar 27, 2022

MattKing said:
The logician in me tells me that that is a terrible idea.
Why?
Because if you ask the question, the seller knows that you are un-informed, and therefore can safely be sent the exposed papers in their inventory!

Hmm, no. My question is a Master Chess Move. It forces the seller to respond. His answer will uncover the truth without a doubt.

But as I said right at the beginning: this will not work if you are dealing with a Vile, Machiaveli, dishonest person, in which case you were doomed right from the begining.

randyB · Mar 27, 2022

NB23 said:
Hmm, no. My question is a Master Chess Move. It forces the seller to respond. His answer will uncover the truth without a doubt.

But as I said right at the beginning: this will not work if you are dealing with a Vile, Machiaveli, dishonest person, in which case you were doomed right from the begining.

Chess doesn't get ruined by exposure to light, photo paper does. While YOU know not to open the box in light, the seller who might be ignorant to photography doesn't know that and will simply do as you ask. I've been to several estate sales where the owner had a darkroom and buyers would just open the packs of paper to see what is inside paying no attention to the warning on the cover. Most don't have a clue as to what a darkroom actually is. Your method would more than likely unnecessarily ruin a lot of photo paper. If you come across a listing that makes YOU ask your question then perhaps that is a seller that is not knowledgeable in photography and you should stay away OR you can use your knowledge to educate them to the reality's of photo paper.

NB23 · Mar 27, 2022

randyB said:
Chess doesn't get ruined by exposure to light, photo paper does. While YOU know not to open the box in light, the seller who might be ignorant to photography doesn't know that and will simply do as you ask. I've been to several estate sales where the owner had a darkroom and buyers would just open the packs of paper to see what is inside paying no attention to the warning on the cover. Most don't have a clue as to what a darkroom actually is. Your method would more than likely unnecessarily ruin a lot of photo paper. If you come across a listing that makes YOU ask your question then perhaps that is a seller that is not knowledgeable in photography and you should stay away OR you can use your knowledge to educate them to the reality's of photo paper.

Yes. And since you are being honest about buying, you must be sure you will not be receiving junk. Therefore asking the question clears a lot of problems right from the start.

Someone that does not know that the paper must be in the dark will have already opened the package, you can be 100% sure of that. I mean, wat kind of person wouldn’t? Only one: a connoisseur.

By asking the seller “are you sure you have never opened the bag, even for one millisecond?” Or “can you guarantee me that the bag has never been opened, not even for a quick glance?” you are totally exposing yourself. You are totally opening the door to answers such as “i’m not sure or “i can’t guarantee...”. But remember, you would kill for that polywarmtone. So there’s only one option, it is to ask to see the papers. A honest seller will know you are asking a trick question. You will always get the right answer this way.

Well, that’s my theory on the issue. I came up with the most Bulletproof way of buying paper, cheap. But I’m quite the rare type, I just print a loooot. I need to buy a lot, fresh, and cheap.

Don_ih · Mar 27, 2022

I must remember to list all my fogged paper on ebay.....

NB23 · Mar 27, 2022

Don Heisz said:
I must remember to list all my fogged paper on ebay.....

Ooh you have a lot? Show us your stash

Sirius Glass · Mar 27, 2022

Will you open the box and show us the paper spread out. please.

Down Under · Mar 27, 2022

I nominate this for the Dung Pile Award as Silliest Thread Of The Year.

Sadly, there are so many out there who will take this as serious...

Sirius Glass · Mar 27, 2022

ozmoose said:
I nominate this for the Dung Pile Award as Silliest Thread Of The Year.

Sadly, there are so many out there who will take this as serious...

Best concept on this thread.

BrianShaw · Mar 27, 2022

ozmoose said:
I nominate this for the Dung Pile Award as Silliest Thread Of The Year.

Sadly, there are so many out there who will take this as serious...

The year is still young…

Don_ih · Mar 28, 2022

NB23 said:
Ooh you have a lot? Show us your stash

No. I was just thinking I'd refuse to show you the paper so you could buy it all in good faith.

NB23 · Mar 28, 2022

Eugen Mezei said:
The problem is, most of the sellers will do as you asked. Lot of perfectly usable paper will be ruined this way. Thank you very much, you indeed came up with a genius idea.

Chess move, my friend. C-h-e-s-s-m-o-v-e.

But in all seriousness, the sellers who don’t know, the ones you are alluding to, they will never sell papers inside a box without having counted them beforehand. What kind of person, other than an Autist, would sell something inside a box without seeing if it even exists?

My logic is unflawed. Would be too long to type all the possibilities and theories, but all in all this is the way to do it if you care to receive what’s right.

NB23 · Mar 28, 2022

Eugen Mezei said:
The problem is, most of the sellers will do as you asked. Lot of perfectly usable paper will be ruined this way. Thank you very much, you indeed came up with a genius idea.

Why would ignorant sellers sell papers that they don’t know exists without seeing it first, without knowing that they aren’t allow to open them in broad daylight?
Please think.

Patrick Robert James · Mar 28, 2022

That is actually pretty slick, but of course as soon as people Google your question, the answer will always be "of course not."

Personally I just never buy any old paper. I already have a pile over 3 feet high of paper I've bought over the years but never used, now it isn't any good. No need to add to it. Trying to save money with old paper is a fool's errand. If you just want to try something discontinued I guess it might be worth the risk. But then again I've been around long enough to have used all those long gone papers. Shame they are gone but they aren't the same after 30 years in someone's attic.

Don_ih · Mar 28, 2022

Patrick Robert James said:
Trying to save money with old paper is a fool's errand.

Not if you don't make any money from the paper but use it out of interest. I've bought a lot of old paper that was still good and saved a massive amount if compared with the cost of new. I haven't bought nearly as much old paper that was totally useless.

My advice: don't buy any Ilford MGIII - it's all fogged.

pentaxuser · Mar 28, 2022

NB23,iIf the sale is via e-bay and there is evidence that you asked the seller to open the box and show you the paper then if he does so and then sends you the box, doesn't the seller have a defence that all he was doing was as you asked. He can claim that he was not familiar with the properties of darkroom paper so he was merely trying to be helpful in meeting your request?

Might there not be a counter claim that you have refused payment because your request has ruined his goods?

Not sure I'd want to take this to court. The outcome may be far from a certain win for you

pentaxuser

Luckless · Mar 28, 2022

Trying to bait someone into ruining what could be a perfectly usable product that has been handled properly is 'kind of a dick move'.

Especially when you go into it having no intention of buying it after they ruin the paper specifically on your behalf.

BrianShaw · Mar 28, 2022

Luckless said:
Trying to bait someone into ruining what could be a perfectly usable product that has been handled properly is 'kind of a dick move'.

Especially when you go into it having no intention of buying it after they ruin the paper specifically on your behalf.

I'm hoping this thread is an attempt at humor (or humour).

Sirius Glass · Mar 28, 2022

Luckless said:
Trying to bait someone into ruining what could be a perfectly usable product that has been handled properly is 'kind of a dick move'.

Especially when you go into it having no intention of buying it after they ruin the paper specifically on your behalf.

That was my first and lasting impression.

I would only buy opened paper from here.

pentaxuser · Mar 28, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
That was my first and lasting impression.

I would only buy opened paper from here.

pentaxuser

Don_ih · Mar 28, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
I would only buy opened paper from here.

I would buy paper from here. I'd take the word of whoever was selling it. But this is a photography forum, not a flea market.

NB23 · Mar 28, 2022

Luckless said:
Trying to bait someone into ruining what could be a perfectly usable product that has been handled properly is 'kind of a dick move'.

Especially when you go into it having no intention of buying it after they ruin the paper specifically on your behalf.

You obviously have not what it takes to undestand the many facets at play. Analyse it from all angles, and you shall understand.

Sirius Glass · Mar 28, 2022

NB23 said:
You obviously have not what it takes to undestand the many facets at play. Analyse it from all angles, and you shall understand.

We understand, but from the start the whole thing is just a farce, not even a deep farce, just a farce. In fact it is just a Waste Of Money Brains And Time ==> WOMBAT Your idea is just a WOMBAT!

pentaxuser · Mar 28, 2022

NB23 can we take it that none of what you have said to-date in your opening post or any of your replies was meant to be contain even a hint of whimsy i.e. you meant every word

Thanks

pentaxuser

Tip, when buying paper online

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