Tiny Black Flakes On Negative

DF · Nov 19, 2014

Just developed 4 rolls of Pan F Plus in same tank and though they all came out well, one roll shows what appears to be tiny black flakes on (in?) many of the frames - even though those very frames, minus the black flakes/specks, came out well. The flakes blot out just a small part of the scene, some somewhat clumped together and other dispersed yet close to ( if this makes any sense). Did something go wrong - something not rinse away due to perhaps inadequate agitation, during development, fixer or clearing bath phases?

StoneNYC · Nov 19, 2014

Hmm, just one?

Were you using any kind of old camera? I once had this issue with an old Kodak folder camera, it had a bellows, and so when I shot a roll of film and left the Bellows open the entire time I had no issues, but on another role, I happened to shoot a few frames then close the camera up making a bellows fold up, and then unfolded them to take another picture or two and then folded them up again etc. until the role was done, the Bellows had started to disintegrate and dust from the Bellows itself had been blown onto the film so that the next exposure that was taken was covered with dust and interfered with the light hitting the film causing spots.

I'm not sure if I'm thinking in reverse here, but is this a possibility?

John Bragg · Nov 20, 2014

Hi there. Howoften do you change your fixer ? Could be minute flakes of silver that have stuck to your film ?

Xmas · Nov 20, 2014

if you are using multi tanks and stock bottles you need to filter before you do next batch.
I've had debris in hypo clear!
if you post a strip of film back to ilford they may be able to identify for you.

DF · Nov 21, 2014

It's the damnest thing - the specs/spec formations are virtually the same for each scene, 3-4 bracketed exposures, then they appear again in a different pattern but all the same for the next scene, all 3-4 brackets. Am I making sense? If so does it make sense? 4 Rolls ALL developed in the same canister, only 1 roll this happened to.....

StoneNYC · Nov 21, 2014

DF said:
It's the damnest thing - the specs/spec formations are virtually the same for each scene, 3-4 bracketed exposures, then they appear again in a different pattern but all the same for the next scene, all 3-4 brackets. Am I making sense? If so does it make sense? 4 Rolls ALL developed in the same canister, only 1 roll this happened to.....

This is not development this is an in-camera issue.

Regular Rod · Nov 21, 2014

StoneNYC said:
This is not development this is an in-camera issue.

Without seeing the surface I'd go along with that unless there are actually bits on the surface of the film rather than lots of little blank areas. Black = something preventing exposure. White = something after exposure.

RR

Simon R Galley · Nov 21, 2014

Without seeing it its really difficult, can you post an image? if not and you want us to check it out we would be happy to.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Ronald Moravec · Nov 21, 2014

Black flecks of odd sizes and shapes sticking to the negative are from the fix. The first time you use fix, silver goes into solution and you never see the problem. Starting in 24 to 48 hours, the silver precipitates out and finds itself as dark grey flecks on the bottom of the bottle. A good portion of these transfer when you pour the fix over the next film. They stick like glue and washing will not remove them. I have tried every filtering method I can think of to no avail. Certainly I CAN GET THE LARGER PIECES, BUT THE SMALLER ESCAPES. Even settling and syphoning off the used fix is not perfect. I have not tried a centrifuge which would most likely work.

My solution is to mix fresh for each 24 hour period, then use it for test prints. Problem gone for decades now never to return.

Treat yourself to some decent glass bottles. These clean best and you can see if they are not. Plastic is for landfills.

Mr Jenkins gave you same answer, but with less detail, on another forum. He is an expert who has been around decades.

Would be interesting how large commercial darkrooms handles this in the past.

StoneNYC · Nov 21, 2014

Ronald Moravec said:
Black flecks of odd sizes and shapes sticking to the negative are from the fix. The first time you use fix, silver goes into solution and you never see the problem. Starting in 24 to 48 hours, the silver precipitates out and finds itself as dark grey flecks on the bottom of the bottle. A good portion of these transfer when you pour the fix over the next film. They stick like glue and washing will not remove them. I have tried every filtering method I can think of to no avail. Certainly I CAN GET THE LARGER PIECES, BUT THE SMALLER ESCAPES. Even settling and syphoning off the used fix is not perfect. I have not tried a centrifuge which would most likely work.

My solution is to mix fresh for each 24 hour period, then use it for test prints. Problem gone for decades now never to return.

Treat yourself to some decent glass bottles. These clean best and you can see if they are not. Plastic is for landfills.

Mr Jenkins gave you same answer, but with less detail, on another forum. He is an expert who has been around decades.

Would be interesting how large commercial darkrooms handles this in the past.

I've been processing for years and I've never ever had this issue before caused by old fixer, even when I reused it too exhaustion and had to make a new batch when film wasn't clearing...

On top of that the poster has stated that the black flex appear in the same place in multiple images this is certainly something that happened in camera.

OptiKen · Nov 21, 2014

Recently I shot some Rollie 400S in an old Argus A2B camera with a #29 filter, hoping for some nice IR shots of the usual (clouds, trees, etc).
The entire roll came out with black specs on the film when I developed it.
I always filter my chemicals through a coffee filter in a funnel before using them.
The specs are from inside the ancient camera. The seals are deteriorating and tiny dust flakes are dislodged ever time I click the shutter or advance the film.

I'll be doing my IR shooting with my old Nikon EM from now on.

Regular Rod · Nov 21, 2014

Ronald Moravec said:
Black flecks of odd sizes and shapes sticking to the negative are from the fix. The first time you use fix, silver goes into solution and you never see the problem. Starting in 24 to 48 hours, the silver precipitates out and finds itself as dark grey flecks on the bottom of the bottle. A good portion of these transfer when you pour the fix over the next film. They stick like glue and washing will not remove them. I have tried every filtering method I can think of to no avail. Certainly I CAN GET THE LARGER PIECES, BUT THE SMALLER ESCAPES. Even settling and syphoning off the used fix is not perfect. I have not tried a centrifuge which would most likely work.

My solution is to mix fresh for each 24 hour period, then use it for test prints. Problem gone for decades now never to return.

Treat yourself to some decent glass bottles. These clean best and you can see if they are not. Plastic is for landfills.

Mr Jenkins gave you same answer, but with less detail, on another forum. He is an expert who has been around decades.

Would be interesting how large commercial darkrooms handles this in the past.

The particles you describe would show up as white flecks on the prints.

RR

DF · Nov 22, 2014

But why are they the same per set (scene) and then differ again yet the same for the next per set/scene ?
I'd have to show this

Tiny Black Flakes On Negative

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency