Tintypes and Dagaurratypes

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DaveO

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I don't know if this is the right place for this. Sorry if I am wrong.
I picked up two Tintypes in Virginia in an antique mall a couple of weeks ago. They weren't expensive so I bought them. It doesn't make sense that some family member must have sold them after the death of an older person.
What is the difference between the Tintype and the Ambrosetype? How can you tell the difference?
I was told that the first two were Tintypes and the mother and child is a Dag.
 

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BrianShaw

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In order of technology age:

Daguerreotype is on a polished silver plate. It will look like a mirror at some angles. There also may be visible tarnish, generally on the periphery of the metal frame.

Ambrotype is on a glass plate. The image is generally on the back side of the plate and backed up with paper so it is viewable.

tintype is on the front surface of a thin metal plate.

All three may be in similar appearing hinged cases with metal framing. I can't see your pictures on my iPhone so can't tell if they are what you were told.
 
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DaveO

DaveO

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Tintype etc

Thanks for the quick answer. I knew that the Dag was used from 1839 to 1860 or so. The most I paid for any of these was around $ 40. They are interesting to look at. When you turn the Dag, you can see pitting in the plate and it does look kind of silvery compared to the woman on the tintype.
 

BrianShaw

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First image (seated lady) = ambro
Second image (standing lady) = tin
Third image (Mother and child) = daguereo

Be very, very careful if you think about taking the packages apart or cleaning the images. The dag will get damages with even the whisp of a soft brush, and totally disappear if wiped. The others are less fragile, but still fragile.
 
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DaveO

DaveO

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Thanks for the answer. I never would have guessed the first was an ambro.
It just seems funny that family members would sell these even if they did not know the subjects name or relationship.
 

BrianShaw

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Not everyone is sentimental or interested in their family history. Sometimes people's possessions scatter despite the best of intentions.
 

TheFlyingCamera

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I'm going to disagree with the assessment of the mother and child as a Daguerreotype, based on the very ornate mat around it, it lacks a certain depth to it, and the fact that it is relatively easy to read. If it is a Daguerreotype, it would be very hard to see the image looking at it straight on without some kind of black non-reflective material in front to prevent reflected light. While Daguerreotypes do tarnish, especially around the edges where the mats come into contact with them, tintypes and ambrotypes are not immune to tarnish rings either, and I have seen wet plate collodion images with similar tarnish before.

While Daguerreotypes were made into the 1860s, their heyday was 1839-1850, with significant decline by the mid 1850s as tintypes and ambrotypes and albumen prints took over. The short explanation of the differences:

  • a tintype is on a piece of blackened steel (called "tin" because it was very inexpensive).
  • an ambrotype is on a piece of glass - it could be clear glass, black glass, ruby glass or even milk glass. Ambrotypes are backed with something opaque to make them readable as a positive.
  • a Daguerreotype is on a piece of silver-plated copper polished to a mirror finish.

All three of your images are in cases. This doesn't rule any image in or out as one medium or the other - dags, ambros and tins were all cased. You can get an idea of the date of an image based on the style of mat around it. The three mats you show are all examples of later style mats with multiple layers and ornate designs.

This is typical of an early (1840s) Daguerreotype:
daganonyoungman1840s.jpg


Another example of an earlier Daguerreotype:
daganonladywglassesquarterplate.jpg


A cased tintype from 1861-62:
davisancestor1862zouave76pa.jpg

(this one I can date very precisely because A: the subject is my ancestor, and B: I had a civil war historian identify his unit based on the uniform, and he was very confident that it was early in the war from certain stylistic clues).

Here is a later Daguerreotype of a young girl - notice how the mat is fancier, but not as ornate as the tintype of my ancestor:
daganongirlwishbonehalfcase.jpg


A milk-glass ambrotype:
20110822-065720.jpg


I hope these examples are illustrative of the differences between the image types (Daguerreotypes have a certain depth to them that no other image type has).

There were two ways to make a wet collodion image on glass - if you shot it on clear glass, exposed it and processed it one way, you end up with a negative good for printing. If you expose and process it differently, you end up with a positive image that is unique. Tintypes are also wet collodion process images, but they are made on the aforementioned steel sheets that have been blackened with asphalt (or Japanned in the colloquial). One way to determine if an image you have is a tintype or an ambrotype (which can be difficult to tell apart when under a protective glass cover in a case) is have a small magnet. The magnet will be attracted to a tintype.
 

BrianShaw

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I'm going to disagree with the assessment of the mother and child as a Daguerreotype, based on the very ornate mat around it, it lacks a certain depth to it, and the fact that it is relatively easy to read. If it is a Daguerreotype, it would be very hard to see the image looking at it straight on without some kind of black non-reflective material in front to prevent reflected light. While Daguerreotypes do tarnish, especially around the edges where the mats come into contact with them, tintypes and ambrotypes are not immune to tarnish rings either, and I have seen wet plate collodion images with similar tarnish before.

While Daguerreotypes were made into the 1860s, their heyday was 1839-1850, with significant decline by the mid 1850s as tintypes and ambrotypes and albumen prints took over. The short explanation of the differences:

...

You could be right about that. Looking at it again...
 

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hi daveO

usually with daguerreotypes if you tilt them to the side
you will see a mirror-like-negative ...
and with tintypes or ambrotypes ( virtually the same thing except for what they are printed on, both are wet plate images )
usually if you tilt to the side you don't see a shiney mirrory-negative.
nice images btw !
john
 
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DaveO

DaveO

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Thanks for all the answers. It's an interesting topic and these do show subjects out of the past that would have never been preserved otherwise.
 
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