Tintype Collodion Process

awty · Oct 13, 2019

Seems I bought a 24cm x 30cm camera with three plate holders, so was thinking I might as well try my hand at Tintypes. Was wondering if someone could link me to a site with some details of the process, especially the chemistry. Cant seem to find much apart from the basic process. Cant find much detail on what chemicals and amounts to use.
I live in Australia, so would be good to source most things locally. Gold street studios have some chemistry https://www.goldstreetstudios.com.au/photographic-supplies/category/wet-plate-collodion/ and I should be able to find some stuff on ebay.
Im not good with text books, already have too many I cant follow. I do best with reading off the internet and making mistakes, its the only way I learn.
Coarse are way too expensive for me.
A couple more quick questions, why are the silver nitrate tanks on a stand. I will probably have to make one so will need to know what angle to work to.
Also are the plates just painted black, no special paint or metal? Can get Colorbond cut to size reasonably cheaply.
Thanks.

removedacct1 · Oct 14, 2019

Anyone who has written extensively about the admittedly complicated process has monetized the information. I suggest if you are at all serious about pursuing the technique, buy a book. I recommend Mark and France Osterman's "Basic Collodion Technique" (https://www.freestylephoto.biz/1862...e-and-Tintype-by-France-Scully-and?cat_id=601). As this is a potentially very hazardous process with many chemicals that require extreme care in handling: you can easily injure yourself if you are not observing correct handling procedures of some of the materials. For that reason, people always recommend you attend a workshop where you can see firsthand how to deal with the materials and the process. This isn't a technique you should approach with an attitude of "I like to learn by making mistakes", because mistakes in handling Collodion/Silver nitrate can easily lead to blindness or death.

If taking an instructional coarse is too expensive for your budget, then you may not want to explore this at all: the materials are quite expensive in themselves. An initial investment to get properly set up to start will easily add up to $500 or more. Right off the bat you are going to need about $100 worth of Silver nitrate. At least $50 for salted Collodion, etc, etc.

Silver nitrate stands are set at an angle to make it easy to drop/lift the plate out of the bath.

Plates are NOT simply painted black with any old paint, because most paints will react adversely with the collodion and silver to make a huge mess. The traditional material used is asphaltum (Japan Black) painted on thin steel and baked. Newcomers typically start by using "Trophy Plate" aluminum, but standard window glass is also a reasonable material to work with (though it requires a very laborious and specific cleaning process to prepare, or your collodion will slide off the glass).

As I say, there are books written to describe the process in great detail (and there ARE many details to learn), so its impractical to write a few paragraphs here and describe the process in the detail needed.

awty · Oct 14, 2019

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I like internet tutorials because I can read a few different methods, some people write better than others, but even then I can struggle to understand what they are writing. Its not because Im dumb its just the way my brain works, like up towards the top of the class in maths and bottom in english. I'll buy a couple of text books and see what there like. Courses are about $500 plus air flights and accommodation, plus time off work, as Im self employed that is difficult. Lots of things are dangerous, its not difficult to learn how to do things safely, Ive worked in the construction industry all my life and seen first hand what happens when you dont take care in what you are doing. Had a similar response when I set about making audio amplifiers, but some people were kind enough to tell me how to do it safely and I did so and made many. Once I set myself to do something I will do so with or with out any help (much easier with help), doesnt bother me if it takes a long time and I don't succeed straight away. The camera turned up today and looks in good condition.

removedacct1 · Oct 14, 2019

If you want some decent tutorials in video format, then you have two great choices: either John Coffer's book (plus DVDs) or Quinn Jacobson's book (plus online videos). Both go into great detail to demonstrate the techniques, but I prefer John Coffer's style of doing things better. John's book/DVD set can be had for under $100 in the US (see: johncoffer.com, scroll down to "Manuals and DVDs Now Available").

awty · Oct 15, 2019

paulbarden said:
If you want some decent tutorials in video format, then you have two great choices: either John Coffer's book (plus DVDs) or Quinn Jacobson's book (plus online videos). Both go into great detail to demonstrate the techniques, but I prefer John Coffer's style of doing things better. John's book/DVD set can be had for under $100 in the US (see: johncoffer.com, scroll down to "Manuals and DVDs Now Available").

Thanks again, will check it out. Managed to track down an old mate who has done tintypes, so will catch up and have a bit of a yarn face to face.

nmp · Oct 15, 2019

Speaking of black painted plates, I wonder if one can use these anodized aluminum plates instead:

https://customengravingplates.com/engraving-plates-anodized-black-color-aluminum/

They probably also have better inherent adhesion to the Collodion because of the surface structure.

Edit: Used the wrong link, now corrected.

awty · Oct 15, 2019

nmp said:
Speaking of black painted plates, I wonder if one can use these anodized aluminum plates instead:

https://customengravingplates.com/engraving-plates-anodized-black-color-aluminum/

They probably also have better inherent adhesion to the Collodion because of the surface structure.

Edit: Used the wrong link, now corrected.

Possibly, as they say there is many ways to skin a cat. Was talking to old mate and mentioned that I was making a ground glass, he said "valve grinding paste" damn I just put in an order for some gritt and I could of drove around the block to the auto shop and bought something off the shelf.I also mentioned I just got a small package of potassium carbonate from eastern europe cause that was the cheapest I could find, he said he just uses baking soda at a higher concentrate for part b for pyrocat hd, bugger!, he also mentioned that sodium thiosulphate is what they use as chlorine stop and you can buy it by the bucket load from a pool shop. When I was getting my stuff together to try bromoil there would be some who insisted you had to use a certain brush, ink and paper (that they happened to sell) and others said much cheaper alternatives work just as well. I just do this as a hobby, so dont care if it is gold standard or not. Anyways got to fix a few more light leaks in the old clunker camera I bought and test it out with some xray film before I get too carried away.

removedacct1 · Oct 15, 2019

Aluminum engraving plate and trophy plate is the same material. It is commonly used as the base for modern tintypes.

nmp · Oct 16, 2019

paulbarden said:
Aluminum engraving plate and trophy plate is the same material. It is commonly used as the base for modern tintypes.

I was alluding to the fact that having anodized black surface, the black paint step can be eliminated. Or is that how it is already done....then never mind. Unless you still have to paint the anodized surface to give it a particular reflective characteristic, in which case anodized surface would be redundant.

Edit: Answered my own question (which Paul did too but I was confused)....went back and looked at this really good video that I had tucked away some time ago. Shows the whole process including the use of anodized Al plates as the starting material.

removedacct1 · Oct 16, 2019

Trophy plate is great for beginners to learn on, but it gives an inferior black compared to a Japanned plate (or ambrotype). You can apply Japan Blackon top of trophy plate and get an excellent black.

nmp · Oct 16, 2019

paulbarden said:
Trophy plate is great for beginners to learn on, but it gives an inferior black compared to a Japanned plate (or ambrotype). You can apply Japan Blackon top of trophy plate and get an excellent black.

Got it...thanks.

awty · Oct 16, 2019

nmp said:
I was alluding to the fact that having anodized black surface, the black paint step can be eliminated. Or is that how it is already done....then never mind. Unless you still have to paint the anodized surface to give it a particular reflective characteristic, in which case anodized surface would be redundant.

Edit: Answered my own question (which Paul did too but I was confused)....went back and looked at this really good video that I had tucked away some time ago. Shows the whole process including the use of anodized Al plates as the starting material.

Saw that one a while ago, just a basic outline of the process with not much on the chemistry.
Topshit Photography is a lot better. Plenty of information just need to dig deep to find stuff thats useful.

removedacct1 · Oct 16, 2019

As I said, anyone who has written extensively on the subject and has the skill set to back it up has likely monetized the material, and this is the material you should invest your time in. Borut is a very skilled artist, but he puts the really good instructional materials behind his Patreon paywall.

So.
Mark Osterman
John Coffer
Quinn Jaconson

These three cover the process in detail. If you don't want to pay for the really well-organized materials, you can always work your way through The Silver Sunbeam (free on archive.org), once considered the best volume on the subject: https://archive.org/details/silversunbeampra00towluoft/page/n5

awty · Oct 16, 2019

paulbarden said:
As I said, anyone who has written extensively on the subject and has the skill set to back it up has likely monetized the material, and this is the material you should invest your time in. Borut is a very skilled artist, but he puts the really good instructional materials behind his Patreon paywall.

So.
Mark Osterman
John Coffer
Quinn Jaconson

These three cover the process in detail. If you don't want to pay for the really well-organized materials, you can always work your way through The Silver Sunbeam (free on archive.org), once considered the best volume on the subject: https://archive.org/details/silversunbeampra00towluoft/page/n5

Borut mentions Mark Osterman book in the vid and I will probably get a copy at some stage. With the high US dollar anything from america costs me double once you factor in postage these days, so I need to be a little more discerning on how I spend. At the moment Im just trying to get a handle on the process. I started learning darkroom photography a few years ago, then some basic alternative processes, mixing my own chemistry and experimenting with variations. This is just a progression, will take me a few months before I even start, just feeling my way around at this stage.

koraks · Oct 17, 2019

I figured out the basics of collodion photography using what I could find for free online. I can assure you that cost me a lot of time. Was it worth it? For me, it was. I kind of like figuring things out just for the sake of it. But it was not easy, certainly not fast, and definitely not a straight line to where I wanted to end up. The information I used were the occasional writeups of process 'experts' as teasers for their commercially available information, videos like the ones of Peterlin (and many others), blog and forum posts of people struggling or succeeding, and not to forget a few 19th century 'period' book chapters and publications that people kindly digitized and put up online. In the end, that latter source of information proved essential to solve some of the issues I had been running into.

I also applied the 'household chemistry' trick in a few places to get materials cheaply and quickly, but most of the collodion-related stuff was and is special order or at least fairly niche oriented. Stuff like collodion, silver nitrate etc. are not necessarily available in your average corner shop, and they cost money, no matter how you search. Yes, you can economize a bit by carefully looking for sources online and in the case of silver nitrate making do with less pure material than would be ideally used (which turned out to be not a problem in my instance). Other auxiliary chemistry was easier to get. One of the tricky bits was to get nitric acid, which happened to be available cheaply and in a convenient concentration as a nutrient for cannabis home growers...

One factor that positively influenced my own learning process was to start small (and in fact I haven't 'grown up' beyond that), i.e. 4x5". Matters become exponentially more complicated as you go up in size, as with everything in photography. Moreover, smaller sizes = lower costs. A 4x5" silver bath can be as small as 150-200ml, which requires only a modest amount of the expensive silver nitrate (the other chemicals are not a major cost factor, as it turns out - not even the collodion as you don't use all that much of it on a plate). This makes entry costs manageable and allowed me to learn without every mistake being an expensive one. I had to decommission one or two silver baths because I messed them up; you don't want to do that with a 2 liter bath. But with a 200ml bath, you curse and move on without losing sleep over it.

awty · Oct 17, 2019

koraks said:
I figured out the basics of collodion photography using what I could find for free online. I can assure you that cost me a lot of time. Was it worth it? For me, it was. I kind of like figuring things out just for the sake of it. But it was not easy, certainly not fast, and definitely not a straight line to where I wanted to end up. The information I used were the occasional writeups of process 'experts' as teasers for their commercially available information, videos like the ones of Peterlin (and many others), blog and forum posts of people struggling or succeeding, and not to forget a few 19th century 'period' book chapters and publications that people kindly digitized and put up online. In the end, that latter source of information proved essential to solve some of the issues I had been running into.

I also applied the 'household chemistry' trick in a few places to get materials cheaply and quickly, but most of the collodion-related stuff was and is special order or at least fairly niche oriented. Stuff like collodion, silver nitrate etc. are not necessarily available in your average corner shop, and they cost money, no matter how you search. Yes, you can economize a bit by carefully looking for sources online and in the case of silver nitrate making do with less pure material than would be ideally used (which turned out to be not a problem in my instance). Other auxiliary chemistry was easier to get. One of the tricky bits was to get nitric acid, which happened to be available cheaply and in a convenient concentration as a nutrient for cannabis home growers...

One factor that positively influenced my own learning process was to start small (and in fact I haven't 'grown up' beyond that), i.e. 4x5". Matters become exponentially more complicated as you go up in size, as with everything in photography. Moreover, smaller sizes = lower costs. A 4x5" silver bath can be as small as 150-200ml, which requires only a modest amount of the expensive silver nitrate (the other chemicals are not a major cost factor, as it turns out - not even the collodion as you don't use all that much of it on a plate). This makes entry costs manageable and allowed me to learn without every mistake being an expensive one. I had to decommission one or two silver baths because I messed them up; you don't want to do that with a 2 liter bath. But with a 200ml bath, you curse and move on without losing sleep over it.

Thats great thanks for the tips, Im happy to do the same. Dont have any other option. Cant do a coarse unless one becomes available locally and even then they usually have very long waiting lists. Been on the Pl/Pa list for 2 years and now I have lost interest. Prefer VDB and Cyanotypes which I taught my self and mix chemistry from scratch.
Use to using silver nitrate and other toxic chemistry and am aware of any safety precautions that are needed. Know that not all chemicals are created equal and sometimes its better spend a bit more and get quality.
Can convert a film holder to 4x5 or 8x10 if needed, but am quite use to handling large things and like the ULF sizes, better impact to me. Think 24 x 30 would be good for 1:1 portraiture.
Did you make a plate holder or buy one? Will see if its easier to convert a 4 x 5 or make an adaptor for the 24 x 30 I already have.
Doesn't bother me if it takes a decade or more, the harder something is the more determined I become. I have no desire to become a photographer, or an artist, already have a job I dislike, dont need another. This just so I can make some pretty pictures to hang on the wall.
Please let me know of any hints that may help and lets be positive and supportive.

A couple more links to the process with chemistry amounts. I can cross reference later.
https://www.bostick-sullivan.com/cart/images/filemanager/uploads/Kit Instructions/wet plate instructions.pdf
https://dieter.me/wet-plate-collodion-a-guide-to-tintypes-and-ambrotypes/

awty · Oct 17, 2019

Fixed all the light leaks I could find on the camera and plate holders, they were numerous, but I think I got them all. Pretty nifty camera has front standard rise and fall and front shift (both leaked light). and rear tilt. Bellows are ok once I patched a half dozen holes, has just over 70cm extension. Dark slides all had leaks on the slats, which seem to be ok once I used liquid electrical tape on them, interesting how they flop over on themselves. Made a lens board holder to take the same size as my 8x10. Now need to film test to see if I missed any leaks.
Need to make a plate dipper and drying rack next.

removedacct1 · Oct 17, 2019

I guess I just have a different attitude towards learning new techniques - I’d rather find the best resources and learn what I need to know in a month, rather than piecing it together over ten years. But hey, do what suits you. Good luck!

koraks · Oct 17, 2019

I think for some of us the piecing together, experimenting and making mistakes is part of the fun At least that's true for me. It gives me the feeling (whether it's correct or not) that I understand things better when I succeed in the end. It's silly if you look at it objectively, but different strokes, eh?

@awty: I modified a standard double sided 4x5 holder for wet plate using silver wire, nail polish and a saw & file. For larger formats, I think I'd build something from wood because I don't like irreversibly modifying costly objects, even though that route is easier and has higher chances of success.

nmp · Oct 17, 2019

A lot of times, even if you take that expensive workshop, you come home and still have to do a lot of experimenting to fit your own circumstances (it is hard to translate everything exactly.) So I think it seldom works out that you can simply pick something up and run with it. One way to maximise on the return of a workshop or an intensive course is to dabble in the process yourself extensively beforehand to get the basics and understand your limitations so you can establish certain expectations beforehand. One learns more if one knows what questions to ask.

Speaking of workshops, Gold Street Street offers some in Wet Plate Collodion in OP's neck-of-the-woods. I don't know how far in advance they get sold out, though.

awty · Oct 18, 2019

koraks said:
I think for some of us the piecing together, experimenting and making mistakes is part of the fun At least that's true for me. It gives me the feeling (whether it's correct or not) that I understand things better when I succeed in the end. It's silly if you look at it objectively, but different strokes, eh?

@awty: I modified a standard double sided 4x5 holder for wet plate using silver wire, nail polish and a saw & file. For larger formats, I think I'd build something from wood because I don't like irreversibly modifying costly objects, even though that route is easier and has higher chances of success.

I admire your ingenuity.

awty · Oct 18, 2019

nmp said:
A lot of times, even if you take that expensive workshop, you come home and still have to do a lot of experimenting to fit your own circumstances (it is hard to translate everything exactly.) So I think it seldom works out that you can simply pick something up and run with it. One way to maximise on the return of a workshop or an intensive course is to dabble in the process yourself extensively beforehand to get the basics and understand your limitations so you can establish certain expectations beforehand. One learns more if one knows what questions to ask.

Speaking of workshops, Gold Street Street offers some in Wet Plate Collodion in OP's neck-of-the-woods. I don't know how far in advance they get sold out, though.

Thats what my mate said. He paid for a one on one coarse because he didnt want to be in a group with newbies who would need extra help with some basics, but even then once he went back home and put what he learned in process he had problem he had to sort through via email. Would of been as you said, to have a better working knowledge to begin with.
I self taught myself darkroom printing, because I didnt know of anyone else near me doing any, by the time I found a few others I was more advanced than they were. If I were to do a silver gelatin coarse I would want it to be one on one with someone experienced on the more technical aspects.
I also want to work on my camera skills a bit more. To me the greatest attribute for large format is its depth and almost three dimensional look, to take full advantage of that you need to know how to work the camera and light.
Gold street is a 4 hour plane flight, accommodation, car hire and work shops run mid week, so time off work, I'm a self employed contractor, not easy to juggle. Also Havent been to Melbourne for 30 years, as I remember, they speak funny down there, follow a bizarre form of football (use that term loosely) and have really bad beer. Craig Tuffin lives a couple of hours drive away, but is very busy traveling the country and globe, he does very expensive one to one workshops occasionally when at home that I could look into doing a little down the track. The more I read about the basic process the less daunting it looks.

Ray Morgenweck · Oct 18, 2019

Your first step should be hooking up with other folks in Australia doing wet plate. I’ve shipped a Lot of Wet Plate gear there over the years, but do not feel free to release names (privacy issues). “Facebook” has a wet plate community, try there. Workbooks, Yes, you need ONE. I suggest Ostermans, or George Berkhoffers book. Follow ONE path of formulas. iGNORE most stuff you read, follow only ONE set of formulas and ONE mentor!!!!!!!!!!!!! Avoid “premixed” chems, learn to make all your own from your chems. This way you’ll learn what HARMONY means, and trust my 24 yeats of experience and accept HARMONY is the KEY to good Wet Plate images!!!!! To learn, shoot on clear glass plates. This shows defects and flaws better than tins (and bad glass plates can be cleaned and reused...not tins). Trophy aluminum is fine to use. You can easily make your own tintype plates from shim steel and roofing cement and mineral spirits (+ heat to bake). As to holders, you must support plates only by the corners. Tins are backed with glass. Fidelity holders can be cut and used. Wet plate can be done in a Brownie, a view or a professsionally built Wet Plate Camera. ••••. So my advice is Stop watching videos and reading chatter....get a real Workbook by a Master and follow it. Hook up with someone doing the process for some hands on. That alone, will be your best start.

removedacct1 · Oct 18, 2019

No workshop, either as a group or one-on-one can teach you everything you will ever need to know about this process. There will always be technical problems and errors you will need to work out as you go. This is a VERY finicky process in which small changes in chemistry, temperature or atmospheric conditions can suddenly make your work go from perfection to garbage, seemingly without explanation. A one time workshop cannot possibly provide all the information to deal with all troubleshooting scenarios you will encounter. But that does not mean that a workshop is a waste of time/money. A workshop will provide you with a strong foundation for understanding the process, and help you avoid the first 50% of possible mistakes you can make. For that, it is worth it. In 2017 I took a one day workshop in which there were 8 other students. By the end of the day I could make a portrait tintype that was as good as any portraits I have seen made by wet plate. Six months later an 8x10 tintype I made won first prize in a Wet Plate Collodion competition. I'd say taking that course was $250 well spent.

But as is always the case, your needs and desires may be very different than mine, so take whatever approach you deem worthy. But given my personal experience with the technique, I'm with Ray as far as advice goes.

Ray Morgenweck · Oct 18, 2019

Yes, it is Amazing how fast “things can click” when after a lot of self taught trouble you meet a “Pro”. Such was the case in 1995 when after a day with Mark in Newtown, I went from mystified to understanding. The next weekend I was shooting Ambrotypes at a CW event for (gasp) money.

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